This is heartbreaking

[SirGalahad]

The point that silly RWR cannot compehend is that we don't need to follow the US approach to Policing as all it needs is more aggression to resolve issues. Just like with healthcare and education these silly RWR just think there are simple solutions to everything.

I think our Police on the whole are excellent - they could do with more resources and more officers - but hey someone cut their budget. They don't need new powers.

 

[Munroast]

Sure lets judge things by your knowledge and bigotry. Why not?

Why don't you learn a bit about the facts before you spout your nonsense.

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

The facts of Daniel Shaver killing are available so we don't need your pseduo speculation to defend the police. Disgusting, but its par the course for RWR these days.

You're like a little child screaming out insults, try and grow up a little and present an argument in a calm manner.

Your link is heavily flawed as it is based on a 'per capita' basis. You have to look at who the police are dealing with not the population as a whole. in the USA about 40% of whom the police are arresting are black, and yet only 30% of those killed during arrest are black. So if anything it would appear to be less likely to be killed during arrest if you are black. I am quite happy to consider the argument that racism could lie behind why black people are more likely to turn to crime, but when the police come to arrest someone they are clearly less likely to shoot and kill them.

I made no speculation whatsoever into why the police shot shaver.

 

[sxturbo]

Sure lets judge things by your knowledge and bigotry. Why not?

Why don't you learn a bit about the facts before you spout your nonsense.

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

The facts of Daniel Shaver killing are available so we don't need your pseduo speculation to defend the police. Disgusting, but its par the course for RWR these days.

Triggered much?

Think you might have misunderstood what was written, and your response was ott.

Usually your quite good at discussion and I take on board what you write,

You opened the thread for discussion so treat it as such, why not just ask him to expand on what was written before just chucking insults, others are allowed an opinion also even if it's different to yours.

 

[JohnD]

...in the USA about 40% of whom the police are arresting are black...

Although only 13% of the population.

I am quite happy to consider the argument that racism could lie behind why black people are more likely to turn to crime

presumably you are also willing to consider the possibility that racism could lie behind why black people are more likely to be arrested. And, if arrested, more likely to be charged. And, if charged, more likely to be prosecuted. And, if prosecuted, more likely to be convicted. And, if convicted, more likely to be imprisoned. And, if imprisoned, more likely to have a long sentence. And, if having a long sentence, more likely to be imprisoned for life.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

presumably you are also willing to consider the possibility that racism could lie behind why black people are more likely to be arrested.

Interesting point. Totally wrong, but interesting none the less.

 

[Notch7]

the US police shoot and kill a lot more whites than any other ethnicity

Not per capita.

"Black Americans are 3.23 times more likely than whites to be killed by police"

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/blacks-whites-police-deaths-disparity/

 

[Mottie]

Not per capita.

"Black Americans are 3.23 times more likely than whites to be killed by police"

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/blacks-whites-police-deaths-disparity/

Are they 3.23 times more likely to be committing a crime that will get them killed by the police compared to whites?

 

[Notch7]

Are they 3.23 times more likely to be committing a crime that will get them killed by the police compared to whites?

It is a fair point although like all things reality is more nuanced.

Let's consider: "Some criminologists think we could be simply confusing race for poverty or inequality: black people tend to offend more because they tend to be more disadvantaged, living in poorer urban areas with less access to public services, and so on"

 

[noseall]

Are they 3.23 times more likely to be committing a crime that will get them killed by the police compared to whites?

Easy to identify - bang bang.

 

[JohnD]

Interesting point. Totally wrong, but interesting none the less.

I notice you are so blinkered that you refuse to consider the possibility

No, it is an interesting point, and totally right.

 

[SirGalahad]

You're like a little child screaming out insults, try and grow up a little and present an argument in a calm manner.

Your link is heavily flawed as it is based on a 'per capita' basis. You have to look at who the police are dealing with not the population as a whole. in the USA about 40% of whom the police are arresting are black, and yet only 30% of those killed during arrest are black. So if anything it would appear to be less likely to be killed during arrest if you are black. I am quite happy to consider the argument that racism could lie behind why black people are more likely to turn to crime, but when the police come to arrest someone they are clearly less likely to shoot and kill them.

I made no speculation whatsoever into why the police shot shaver.

Of course you did, the details of Shaver death have been reported on widely and in that article but you still found it in yourself to speculate.

The point of the post was the treatment of his widower after the event and how the Police Dept and Authorities acted. You immediately made it into something about race which coming from your other posts comes as no surprise.

Your logic in trying to dismiss the evidence as being flawed by saying it should look at the arrests as a whole and not a per capita basis then puts the question into focus - why then are Black people arrested as a percentage of black population more often which then leads back to the issue of Policing. For example, In Ferguson Missouri, the local council cut budgets and to make up shortfalls they asked the Police to be more aggressive in ticketing and handing out fines in the poorer neighbourhoods. Some officers were awarded for the amount of fines they issued. So in trying to dismiss the evidence as it needs context you simply exposed the wider issue. Well done for arguing against yourself.

 

[SirGalahad]

Triggered much?

Think you might have misunderstood what was written, and your response was ott.

Usually your quite good at discussion and I take on board what you write,

You opened the thread for discussion so treat it as such, why not just ask him to expand on what was written before just chucking insults, others are allowed an opinion also even if it's different to yours.

The point of the OP was the treatment of Shaver widower after the event and how the Police dept and authorities acted. Munro was more interested about ethnicity and race so reducing this to another phantom culture war woke debate.

Munro and everyone else can have whatever opinion they like but it seems quite ironic the ones who moan about wokism are the first to use that as a debating tool.

The treatment of Shaver wife is a tragedy.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Are they 3.23 times more likely to be committing a crime that will get them killed by the police compared to whites?

It is a fair point although like all things reality is more nuanced.
Let's consider: "Some criminologists think we could be simply confusing race for poverty or inequality: black people tend to offend more because they tend to be more disadvantaged, living in poorer urban areas with less access to public services, and so on"

Precisely Notch7, racism and discrimination is a cause and it has effects.
Due to the institutionalised racism prevalent in USA, UK and other countries, poverty, disease, disadvantage creates inequality and the sense that laws and the whole justice system, etc are also racist, and that those discriminated against are born into opposition to those racist systems.
Even if racism could be totally eradicated immediately, it would take at least a generation for any effects to be observed.

And yes, black people are more likely, per capita, to be killed by police in USA. They make up only about 13% of the population.
Yes, it possibly is true that black people are more likely to be involved in criminal activities, but they feel that they were born outside of the justice system, which is designed, operated and built by white people in order to discriminate against black people.

 

[Mottie]

Yes, it possibly is true that black people are more likely to be involved in criminal activities, but they feel that they were born outside of the justice system, which is designed, operated and built by white people in order to discriminate against black people

Cobblers.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Cobblers.

You've excelled yourself with your intellectual and factual based counter argument this time.