URGENT WARNING.

[Big_Spark]

Guys, I was pulled over by a Police Traffic Car on my way home after I drove past him at 70mph on a dual carriageway (A12 near Witham). He gave me some odd hand signals initially, that I thought meant he was doing a rolling road block, however as his lights did not go on, I let the van roll past.

Anyway, it transpires that all Goods Vehicles, and this means VANS even if car derived, are limited to 60mph (100kph) on Dual carriageway roads (Even if they have three lanes).

The Officer was good as gold to be honest and showed me their handbook to show he wasn't on a wind up.

Anyway, they are warning van drivers at the moment and from Monday they will be issueing Tickets to any Van or goods vehicle found to be in excess of 60pmh on a dual carriageway.

The Officer said this was Essex wide, but was not sure if the directive came from the home office, and so would be Nationwide, or new Chief Constable of Essex so limiting this to Essex Constabulary.

So be warned, if your driving a Van or other vehicle legally classed as a goods Vehicle, you need to be careful for the next few weeks at least till they get bored with it anyway...

 

[andy]

first ive heard of this. i thought it was 70MPH for vans?

 

[Big_Spark]

first ive heard of this. i thought it was 70MPH for vans?

Makes Two of us, but his book clearly shows differently, and it is not his definition of Van either, there is a pictogram beside of a van, one for cars, one for Trucks and one for coaches..it then listed the speeds if pulling a trailer.

 

[pipme]

Not up to speed then?

Free here http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/index.htm

 

[rederech]

Makes Two of us, but his book clearly shows differently, and it is not his definition of Van either, there is a pictogram beside of a van, one for cars, one for Trucks and one for coaches..it then listed the speeds if pulling a trailer.

[/quote

FWL_Engineer

You are spot on again. My nieghbour and I were discussing speed limits last week and this article came up.


Confusion over van speed limits
28 July 2005
Author: Phill Tromans

VAN fleets are walking a legal tightrope amid confusion about the speed limits their drivers should stick to.

Fleets are finding that inconsistencies by dealers when registering sub two-tonne vans are effectively creating two speed limits.

The Highway Code says car-derived vans weighing up to two tonnes can travel at 60mph on single carriageways and 70mph on dual carriageways and motorways, effectively making them the same as cars.

But in addition it says goods vehicles under 7.5 tonnes are restricted to 50mph on single carriageways, 60mph on dual carriageways and 70mph on motorways. There is no clear lower limit on this rule.

Some dealers register these vans as ‘car-derived’ and others as ‘commercial vehicles’, meaning two vehicles exactly alike are subject to different speed limits.

These include some Ford Transit Connects, Citroen Berlingo and Peugeot Partner.

Alan Phillips, a buyer for Morris Vermaport, which runs Vauxhall Combos and Citroen Berlingos, contacted Fleet News after receiving conflicting advice from police and transport authorities.

Link :http://www.fleetnewsnet.co.uk/news/view_article.asp?s=view_article&art_ID=38298&menu=1

Cheers

 

[david and julie]

The first speed limits on the graph means cars and CDV's upto 2 tonnes max weight. (combined weight of vehicle and its load). This applies even if your van is empty, it is the weight (stamped on a plate in the van)which applies.

The area you are talking about is between 2 tonnes and 7.5 tonnes. This means that the lower rated (weightwise) CDV's which gross at more than 2 tonnes are not termed CDV(to the law) because of the weight, whereas the same vehicle with less carrying capacity still is.

Look at it like this, a CDV model is called say a 600 and its stablemate may be an 800. This name(if a number) is usually what they can carry, so one can carry 200K more than the other, OK fair enough. If we now say the above (when empty) weighs 1350KG (a fair average for small vans) so, the 600 model would weigh 1350+600=1950KG it is a cdv and is below 2 tonnes so can go faster than its brother. This is because he is a fatty at 1350+800=2150KG. He may be CDV but he is over 2 tonnes. So he becomes in the 2 tonnes to 7.5 tonnes range.

Strictly speaking the Ford Transit Connect is different and was always in the higher range. This is because it was the only one built specifically as a van. It was never intended to be a base for a car when designed and built.

Did the PC looked at the vehicle plate( not the VIN plate) before he commented?

Also be aware the signed speed limit only refers to cars below 2 tonnes. The law assumes van drivers to be professional drivers, as such the onus is on you know the limits, regardless of what is displayed.

 

[pipme]

From Devon and Cornwall cops ... looks like 2 tonnes LADEN is the max weight for car speed restrictions to apply with regard to a 'car derived van'

..As far as the taxman is concerned, to qualify as a commercial vehicle, a car-derived van must "be of a construction primarily suited to the conveyance of goods or burden of any description"--and it is the word 'primarily' that counts. This means no rear seats, no rear side windows--in fact nothing that would enable you to use the vehicle for carrying passengers on your days off!..

Taxman and road traffic law perhaps diverge. I wonder if this where the water gets muddy?

Here is the data for a Vauxhall Astravan 1.7DTi EnvoyBody Type: CDV

[code:1]Load Volume(M3): 1.6
Gross Payload(Kg): 615
Gross Vehicle Weight(Kg): 1780
Kerb Weight(Kg): 1165
Towing Limit(Kg): 1100[/code:1]

Gross weight is well inside the 2 tonnes as noted in the DevCon table.

 

[Big_Spark]

David, firstly, the law does not distinguish between a CDV and a Standard Van, if the vehicle is used for commercial purposes then it is legally a Light Goods Vehicle, thus commercial and thus controlled by the legislation and speed limits that apply accordingly.

I have done a fair bit of reading on this since getting home to ensure I know what is and is not right.

Regarding my Van, it is not a CDV as it is a VW Transporter T5-28 TDi. The 28 refers to 2.8 T gross vehicle weight!

 

[oilman]

That looks a bit nasty. I've got a Peugeot Expert. 2200kg gross train weight, must check on max laden weight, but is it a CDV from an 806?

They will create havoc if they really implement the speed restrictions as HGVs should be targeted too and I VERY reaely see one going as slow as 40 on a singel carriageway, and they are usually doing nigh on 60 on dual carriageways. If they have to do 40 on a single carriageway, I suspect there will be a lot of overtaking crashes as a result of car drivers pushing their luck.

I have enough trouble with people driving too close behind, having to do 50 on single carriageways will make things worse if there is no overtaking opportunities for miles.

 

[david and julie]

You say there is no distinction between vans despite the fact pipme has given 2 different official scales which both refer to a CDV.

A goods vehicle used commercially usually refers to one that carries goods for hire or reward. Such as a container truck or tanker. In your instance your van is used incidental to your work. The difference being you are paid for electrical work and not for carrying goods in the van.This is probably why smaller vans are licensed PLG, private light goods.

I would be interested to see where you read differently.

As regards this.

Regarding my Van, it is not a CDV as it is a VW Transporter T5-28 TDi. The 28 refers to 2.8 T gross vehicle weight!

You didn't say what type of van you had when you first posted , you mentioned CDV, so it was reasonable to assume thats whats you had. Furthermore my hypothetical van was a CDV.

Look at it like this, a CDV model is called say a 600 and its stablemate may be an 800. This name(if a number) is usually what they can carry, so one can carry 200K more than the other, OK fair enough. If we now say the above (when empty) weighs 1350KG (a fair average for small vans) so, the 600 model would weigh 1350+600=1950KG it is a cdv and is below 2 tonnes so can go faster than its brother. This is because he is a fatty at 1350+800=2150KG.

In reality though my figures are not far away from pipme's Astra.

Here is the data for a Vauxhall Astravan 1.7DTi EnvoyBody Type: CDV
Code:
Load Volume(M3): 1.6
Gross Payload(Kg): 615
Gross Vehicle Weight(Kg): 1780
Kerb Weight(Kg): 1165
Towing Limit(Kg): 1100
Gross weight is well inside the 2 tonnes as noted in the DevCon table

Don't get me wrong FWL, I believe you, but I am curious if the copper is right. shamee they don't have a purge on the problems people are more concerned about, suppose there ain't much dosh to be had there though.

Oilman. The train weight(GTW)refers to the permissible maximum weight(mass) of your van when it has a trailer attached. Yes your van is a CDV. Which means you may be subject to the limit subject to the Gross vehicle weight. (which I would of thought was around the 2.2T you mentioned)

Have you mixed up GTW and GVW? (btw, weights may be with an "M" for mass).I would of thought the towing weight was higher than that.

 

[oilman]

Yes mixed up. GVW is 2220 and GTW is 3500.

 

[pipme]

..........They will create havoc if they really implement the speed restrictions as HGVs should be targeted too and I VERY reaely see one going as slow as 40 on a singel carriageway, and they are usually doing nigh on 60 on dual carriageways. If they have to do 40 on a single carriageway, I suspect there will be a lot of overtaking crashes as a result of car drivers pushing their luck....

That speed limit (HGV 40) has been in force for ages, begs the question single lane road 50mph limit, car at 57mph Gatso'ed illegal ... HGV at 55mph not flashed inside the 10% + 2 ... But actually 15mph 37% over it's limit of 40mph. Pretty fair old world ..

 

[AdamW]

Didn't someone once say on here that Gatso's have some means of determining the vehicle type? Strength of radar return or measuring the length of the vehicle, or something.

I'm surprised to see tractors with trailers are allowed on the motorway, I was always under the impression that a vehicle had to be capable of more than 30mph to do so, but obviously not!

Works trucks at 18mph everywhere? I'll remember that the next time my car is pebbledashed by a council gritter (fnarr fnarr) skating about at 50 on icy roads!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But what about VDCs (Van Derived Cars), like that execrable Mercedes people carrier?

Or on a more serious point - what about 4-door pick-up trucks?

 

[AdamW]

They assess it on the basis of whether or not there is a copy of "The Sun" placed on top of the dashboard