What are your thoughts on this please.

[AdrianUK]

Firstly:

I REALISE THAT THIS PLUG IS INCORRECTLY & POORLY WIRED AND SO SHOULD NOT REMAIN IN SERVICE.

However, to answer the original question......which I don't think anybody has actually done

If the installation had no RCD & had PME or TNS earthing ... then the appliance would work fine and this error would go undetected. Its also unlikely that this would cause any damage to the equipment, however, should the source of earthing become disconnected then there would be a high risk of electric shock since the incorrect connection would pull all of the "earthed" installation metalwork up towards the phase potential.

*** MY COMMENTS ARE FOR LEARNED TECHNICAL DISCUSSION ONLY. I'M NOT ADVOCATING THAT ANYONE DELIBERATELY WIRE A 3 PIN IN THIS MANNER ***

 

[JohnW2]

However, to answer the original question......which I don't think anybody has actually done

I would say that several people di, back on page 1, and I sort-of summarised some of what had been said when I wrote:

What EFLI said was correct. If it were wired in that same (incorrect) fashion at the WM end (which is incredibly unlikely), then it would work totally 'faultlessly', the only thing wrong being the colours used for the earth and neutral. If the WM end were wired conventionally (which it almost certainly would be) then it might appear to work 'faultlessly' if there were no RCD, but would cause the RCD to trip if there were one.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Back some 40 odd years ago I was told connecting line to earth did not register on the electric meter, never tested it, and sure it does today, but wonder if this was true in the 70's?

 

[sxturbo]

Yes, I remember getting "real" tools one Christmas - I must have been at least 6 based on where we lived at the time. And from an early age would get taught both how to do things, and how not to remove appendages in the process. The grand kids will be getting that treatment someday - might have to teach them how to build a garage as the first step The plan is eventually to be able to send one of them to do the oily bits that involve crawling underneath vehicles

my son is 3 and loves tools, whenever i'm doing DIY he wants to help and so i do let him. I generally hold and control the tools etc for him, although i do now let him hold the cordless drill to remove screws, and i let him use the jack saw well supervised when needed. All he wants for christmas is construction vehicles and power tools, hoping this will carry on throughout him growing up

my wifes brother is useless and cant even hang a picture,

 

[JohnW2]

Back some 40 odd years ago I was told connecting line to earth did not register on the electric meter, never tested it, and sure it does today, but wonder if this was true in the 70's?

It's difficult to believe that such would ever have been true - it presumably could only have been the case if the current monitored was just that in the neutral, which seems hard to believe. Assuming that (as one would expect) it was the current in the line/phase that was monitored, that would always get 'metered', whether the return path was via the neutral conductor or earth.

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

Back some 40 odd years ago I was told connecting line to earth did not register on the electric meter, never tested it, and sure it does today, but wonder if this was true in the 70's?

No of course it was not true. Electricity meters have always measured line current and line to neutral voltage. Whether the current “return” is via neutral or earth makes no difference.

 

[endecotp]

my wifes brother is useless and cant even hang a picture,

He might know where to put an apostrophe though.

 

[sxturbo]

He might know where to put an apostrophe though.

no he wouldn't is 35 and has never had a job or passed his GCSE's, spends all day playing computer games, he's quite good at them..

 

[EFLImpudence]

Back some 40 odd years ago I was told connecting line to earth did not register on the electric meters?

I would have thought the meter would register a rather large amount for a split second.

 

[JohnW2]

I would have thought the meter would register a rather large amount for a split second.

Another case of "we know what he meant", I suppose!

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

I would have thought the meter would register a rather large amount for a split second.

Please explain.

 

[JohnW2]

Please explain.

Try reading what eric actually wrote. "Connecting Line to earth" is likely to result in a very high current flowing (and being metered) for split second, until the echoes of the 'bang' subside!

 

[winston1]

I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that he meant connecting the load between line and earth rather than neutral.

 

[JohnW2]

I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that he meant connecting the load between line and earth rather than neutral.

As I wrote earlier "we all knew what he meant" but EFLI's tongue-in-cheek response was appropriate in relation to what eric had 'actually written'.

We all know "what was meant" when people talk about transformers, lighting rings, low voltage, plug tops etc. etc. - but that doesn't stop people feeling that they should be 'corrected'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[AdrianUK]

May not even need to be a "load"... if the loop impedance is 10 Ohms (good for a TT system) then a 'dead short' between line & earth would pass a current of 230/10 = 23A. This wouldn't create a bang and wouldn't open a 32A MCB ... it would open a 13A fuse but not for several minutes.

This is, of course, one of the reasons why the RCD came to be & is compulsory on a TT system.

A current passed line to earth (and not to neutral) would, of course, register on a domestic electricity meter. The current coil is in the phase & the potential coil is connected phase to neutral. Pretty much all designs of meter have a hard connection between the Neutral IN & Neutral Out terminals -its only needed as a reference for the potential coil.