What would you do if...

[DeadJoe]

Quiz...

What would you do if you were invited to do some work for a customer, perhaps a PIR, or to change a consumer unit, and you discovered that the householder had made significant changes to their house wiring, for example, removing a ring final and replacing it with a couple of radials?

What would you do if (a) the work has been done illegally, but was of a good, safe standard?

What would you do if (b) the work had been done illegally, and had a number of significant and potentially dangerous faults?

Are there any steps you must take, by law, in terms of notifying anyone if you discover this sort of situation?

What do you think?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If I was doing a PIR and faults existed, I would flag them up.
If I was changing a consumer unit the radial circuits would just be radial circuits on a new CU. If it is designed correctly and test out okay, so be it.
If I found any potentially dangerous faults within the said installation. I would report it to the person ordering the work and tell them of my concerns and I would not reconnect these circuits, until any potential hazards had been removed or resolved.

What would you do if you asked a tradesperson to come in to your property and they decided to report you to a legal body, regarding any illegal work that may have been carried out?
You tell them that there has been some soddy/dangerous work carried out and it needs sorting!

What did I score?

PS.
It's not my dad's house, you've been to is it?

 

[DeadJoe]

Your reply seems reasonable enough to me, and I'd give it a good, high score if it were down to me. But obviously, I'm not an electrician, so what would I know?

Obviously I am not considering illegally replacing what looks like a 1980s DIY installation with another DIY installation, and of course I am not reading everything I can find to make sure I understand what I'd need to know to do it safely, and I am not planning to redesign the circuits, but if I were considering such a thing, I'd want to know the potential downsides.

If an electrician visiting my home decided I needed reporting, I imagine I'd have had to really annoy them for them to take such an action. I imagine they wouldn't just go nuclear on me the second they found a problem. And as you say, the work could have been done by anyone. Hopefully, I'd have the good sense to pay them whatever they say it would cost to rectify any faults they found. Hopefully too, rectifying the faults would be cheaper than having got them in to do the work in the first place, but at this point I am not certain of that.

Thanks for your reply, PrenticeBoyofDerry.

 

[EFLImpudence]

So

 

[1john]

I see you are making some suggestions and fishing for some information. Here's a suggestion for you, contact a local spark or five, and see if you can find someone who is willing to oversee you installation, he, or she, can design circuits for you and come and inspect at the various stages, you will be able to direct questions to them as and when you need to and they can come and connect everything, test it and sign it off.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

DeadJoe,
I think we need a little more info.
Reading between the lines, I guess you either have an installation in your house that needs attention or you have a friend that has one.
If there are any potentially dangerous faults within the installation they need to be addressed ASAP or even sooner like now! Before the potential fault becomes a fault , that may lead to something that then becomes unsafe and dangerous.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But obviously, I'm not an electrician, so what would I know?

Hopefully you'd know not to rewire your house, but given what you've said here there's precious little chance of you having that much common sense.

if I were considering such a thing, I'd want to know the potential downsides.

One downside is that you are not competent.

If an electrician visiting my home decided I needed reporting, I imagine I'd have had to really annoy them for them to take such an action. I imagine they wouldn't just go nuclear on me the second they found a problem.

If you even think they might find a problem then please change your mind about doing this work.

And as you say, the work could have been done by anyone. Hopefully, I'd have the good sense to pay them whatever they say it would cost to rectify any faults they found.

If you even think they might find faults then please change your mind about doing this work.

Hopefully too, rectifying the faults would be cheaper than having got them in to do the work in the first place, but at this point I am not certain of that.

Nor are you certain that you'll ever be good enough.

Change your mind about doing it.

 

[DeadJoe]

It's my home, and yes, there are issues with the wiring which give me reason to think something needs to be done.

I had problems with the lighting circuit which I have resolved by replacing everything - new switches, cables, roses and a new junction box to feed the kitchen lights. Obviously, I have been a very bad boy, but the lights don't flicker all night now, it is all earthed properly, and I managed to get rid of the long lengths of bicycle brake cable (or whatever it was) that were tied to posts stuck in the ground outside the front door next to the main earth rod...

Given the mess the lighting was in, now I'm looking at the rest of it and I'm unconvinced by what I am seeing. There seems to be at least one spur on a spur, and cables running away under plaster at funny angles when they should be in safe zones. It's definitely not up to 17th. I can't see anything that is immediately OMG dangerous, but some of it doesn't look especially good, and that makes me nervous about the rest of it. And there's not enough sockets.

Getting an electrician in to take a look and see if they will oversee sounds sensible. I'm seriously broke, so I am sure I can't for afford someone to do all of it. I guess I could do all the donkey work, and chase channels in the wall, lift floorboards, drill joists as required, and so on. Organising everything will be complicated though. I can't have the power off for any length of time because I am living here. But given the changes I am envisioning, I think it might be possible to have the new circuits installed alongside the old installation and then, on changeover day, kill the old circuits and connect the new ones. Or maybe do it in sections, replacing parts of the installation at different times. Maybe that wouldn't cost a great deal.

And you know? This stuff is kind of interesting. If it is at all likely that I can find someone who doesn't just want to take on the whole thing, and is willing to put up with a design/supervisory/final connection role, then I'd be up for that.

 

[ivixor]

If you've already rewired the lighting and know enough to know what's right and what's wrong, just go ahead and do it. No one will care, least of which an electrician coming to do more work. As if they have the time/inclination to play unpaid detective on behalf of b.regs! They generally just turn up, do the job, and leave again as rapidly as possible.

 

[bernardgreen]

and I managed to get rid of the long lengths of bicycle brake cable (or whatever it was) that were tied to posts stuck in the ground outside the front door next to the main earth rod...

Are you sure you still have an adequate earth for the installation ?

If they were metal posts they may have been part of the earthing ?

Do you have a voltage operate earth leakage breaker ? Was the flickering lights caused by the device almost operating on fault currents. Fault currents removed when you disconnected the effective earth rods. The faults might still be there but you now have less or no protection.

Good luck

 

[DeadJoe]

@ bernardgreen...

Are you sure you still have an adequate earth for the installation ?

I know I have earth continuity all the way to the CU, and I know that under fault conditions the RCD trips.

If they were metal posts they may have been part of the earthing ?

They were. There was no earthing on the lighting circuit. At some point someone had added a horrible metal chandelier to the living room, and a fluorescent tube to the kitchen. Because there was no earth available in the lighting circuit, whoever did the work threaded bits of wire through the joists from each of the metal fittings to posts stuck in the ground outside. Whether these provided an adequate earth is doubtful, I think.

CFLs flickering when off is apparently a not entirely uncommon thing to happen when the is no earth in the circuit.

I am confident the situation is safer than it was, but a PIR is in order to make certain.

@ BAS

Hopefully you'd know not to rewire your house, but given what you've said here there's precious little chance of you having that much common sense.

It appears that I do have the common sense not to rewire the house, given that I haven't done it. I appreciate the snide in your comments, BAS - very nicely done, but I'd prefer to take advice from someone who isn't quite as unpleasant as you seem determined to be, BAS. Is that OK by you?

 

[ricicle]

I know I have earth continuity all the way to the CU, and I know that under fault conditions the RCD trips.

How do you know ?

Earth continuity back to the CU is useless if there is no main earth and/or inadequate fault protection.

 

[DeadJoe]

How do you know ?

Because, before connecting to the CU, I tested for continuity by connecting live and neutral at the far end of the lighting circuit and checking for continuity at the other end with a multimeter.

Earth continuity back to the CU is useless if there is no main earth and/or inadequate fault protection.

There is a main earth - the main earth that was originally installed. There is fault protection in the shape of an RCD.

I fully accept that without doing a proper earth integrity test I have no way of knowing how well the earth works. But it is hardly going to be worse than it was before, when there was no earth at all, apart from some dodgy old brake cable, is it?

 

[sparkybird]

@deadjoe
Hopefully you meant live and cpc not neutral.....

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

DeadJoe, words of wisdom "please get the electrics looked at now!"
or you may end up being as your username.
You have not done the required test to prove your installation is safe and that is worrying.