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Will power line adaptors work with 18th edition CU?

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by ericmark, 14 Sep 2019.

  1. ericmark

    ericmark

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    I have no intention of buying power line adaptors, but just out of interest, will the unit fitted into new consumer units stop them working, and could their use cause the unit in the consumer unit to fail?
     
  2. flameport

    flameport

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    Which 'unit' are you referring to?
     
  3. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Like flameportr, I don't know what 'unit' you're talking about. The Powerline adapters I know don't go into the CU and, even if they did, I'm not sure what you think the problem might be with an "18th edition CU" (whatever that might be). Can you perhaps elaborate?

    Kind Regards, John
     
  4. ericmark

    ericmark

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    18th edition CU has a surge protection device. I assume like a filtered socket? I seem to remember Powerline adaptors will not work with filtered sockets, so may also fail with surge protection device.
     
  5. flameport

    flameport

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    Surge protection devices (SPDs) are not filters.
    They only react to high voltage transients, and won't do anything at normal operating voltages.
     
  6. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    That's what I suspected you were thinking if - but, even if SPDs were 'filters' (which, as flameport has said, they aren't), they would surely be in the incoming supply to the installation, not in the feeds to individual final circuits. Hence there is surely no way that they could interfere with transmission of data within or between the wiring of final circuits of the installation.

    'Filtered sockets' are obviously a totally different kettle of fish, since the filter they contain would actually be in the (potentially 'data') path between the Powerline device and the circuit's wiring - hence very likely to interfere with data transmission ('through them').

    Kind Regards, John
     
  7. ericmark

    ericmark

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    The unit goes across the supply, it is in the consumer unit, but would not really matter where placed it goes across the supply the supply does not go through it, so would not matter where it was, but flameport says they only work with spikes, so would not stop powerline adaptors working, pity would have liked to have seen the back of them.
     
  8. aptsys

    aptsys

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    Filters are in-line devices, but even then are not specifically designed for intentional radiators.
     
  9. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Well, one can (and does) have 'shunt filters' (rather than 'series', i.e. 'in-line' ones) - the crudest example of which is, I suppose, what the ubiquitous the capacitors between L&N and E in so many pieces of equipment represent.

    However, I think we are agreed that the nature of SPDs is such that having one across the supply will have absolutely no effect on data/RF unless that is at exceedingly high voltages (for data/RF).

    Kind Regards, John.
     
  10. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    I should perhaps have added that, in terms of electronics, since 'day 1' of radio/wireless communication, 'tuning' (in receivers, transmitters or whatever) has majored (almost exclusively in most situations) on 'shunt filters' (parallel tuned circuits 'across' the signal path). The only common exception was in relation to RF power output stages, where series tuned circuits (i.e. in-line filters') were sometimes used.

    Kind Regards, John
     
  11. aptsys

    aptsys

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    It would be highly unusual to use a parallel network without a series element first. It's an excellent way to damage the output.
     
  12. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Do I take it that you're referring to having an OPD upstream of an SPD? If so, what you say may well be right.

    However, as you will realise, in my previous couple of posts I was referring to your statement that "Filters are in-line devices, but even then are not specifically designed for intentional radiators", which appeared to be a general/generic statement. That's the reason why pointed out that, at least in the field of RF electronics, shunt 'filters' are, and have always been, far more common that series ('in line') ones.

    I would think that the most common form of 'series only' filtering is probably a ferrite bead on a conductor (or a few turns wound on a ferrite bead), very commonly seen in relation to IT equipment.

    Since I've never even owned one (since I don't see the point - if equipment needs filtering, it should provide it!), I have never had an opportunity to dissect one, and therefore no idea what goes on within the "filtered sockets" to which eric referred. I would be relatively surprised if there is not a parallel 'element' (even if only a capacitor), but there is probably also be a series element - maybe a choke consisting of a few turns wound on a ferrite bead, as above? It may even be more sophisticated than that - but I somewhat doubt it!

    Kind Regards, John
     
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