The Tories so far..

[festive]

Are you thinking of people trading as self employed? They pay an NI rate that is about half what Employer's plus Employee's contributions would be.

IIRC they can't claim Jobseekers Allowance

https://www.gov.uk/self-employed-national-insurance-rates

If you have your own business, but are an "employee" of the company and receive income as wages or salary, you can pay tax and NI under PAYE, and both Employer's and Employee's NI contributions are due.

There has been a long campaign to prevent people sliding their earnings out of the "taxable earnings" category. Some of the tax and NI avoidence schemes are obviously wrong. It can be expensive and troublesome to be subject to an HMRC invstigation, even if you have done nothing wrong.

AFAIK there has been no such campaign against tax-dodging billionaires, multinationals or Prime Ministers.

View attachment 182166

Morally wrong but technically ok, that was until HMRC caught wind of this statement and smelt money, they managed to twist a few judges arms and start moving the goalposts... retrospectively too.

 

[JohnD]

the "loan" scheme was I think transparently a fiddle. I'm surprised anybody ever believed they would get away with it.

When I was in that line of work I used an umbrella company and had all my earnings paid as wages with tax and NI. I knew some other people who formed a syndicate and maximised dividends.

It can be useful to be able to show a high salary when applying for a mortgage or making pension contributions, especially when you have the same "employer" for years on end and you are not a director or the sole employee.

 

[EddieM]

What's your thoughts EddieM have you lobbied your local MP? I know many have round my way in fact there's an uprising parallel to the Loan charge group who already have a good number of MP's on board.

It's so wrong, and this is one reason why i am feeling disillusioned with this gov already allowing a twisted view on reality as is hmrc to be picking on the defenceless. Meanwhile corporation X with any defence layer is left alone.

I read the other day examples like this makes my p1ss boil

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-51222424

That's a really complicated question. HMRC obviously see contractors as an easy target, but we become less easy.

So let's break it down. There are contractors who absolutely take the Michael, they probably deserve what they get.

Then there are the large majority who offer flexible services to a client, with non of the headaches, like holiday pay, sick pay, pensions, benefits of any kind, they look after themselves.

Many like me have to work away from home, but are banned from claiming expenses for hotels as it's classed as a permanent place of work.

Then you have the loans debacle, which admittedly many took to as they thought legally avoid more tax, who honestly wants to pay more tax than you have to? So now they are told, sorry retrospectively that's illegal, not what they were told in good faith. Effects just "highly" paid IT contractors.... does it hell, it's affects nurses, carers, all sorts.

In short, there is no simple answer, the blame lies entirely with HRMC for being unclear and inconsistent.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is this a thread about working people being surprised that the Conservatives don't care about them?

 

[EddieM]

the "loan" scheme was I think transparently a fiddle. I'm surprised anybody ever believed they would get away with it.

When I was in that line of work I used an umbrella company and had all my earnings paid as wages with tax and NI. I knew some other people who formed a syndicate and maximised dividends.

It can be useful to be able to show a high salary when applying for a mortgage or making pension contributions, especially when you have the same "employer" for years on end and you are not a director or the sole employee.

Then you were foolish IMO.

 

[JohnD]

Very generous to Society.

 

[EddieM]

Very generous to Society.

More like generous to the umbrella, your choice I guess.

 

[EddieM]

Yep and you don't have the buffer of a permanent employee and the potential of working 6months and being out of work for a few in between.... you have to fend for yourself to find new work, a permie role covers you here of course.

True, even if you're absolutely at the top of your game you can have extended periods of downtime, you have to factor that in, you won't qualify for any support, but you accept it, that's the gig, not for everyone and not always the most reassuring of lives.

 

[transam]

Is this a thread about working people being surprised that the Conservatives don't care about them?

Pretty much sums it up

 

[festive]

the "loan" scheme was I think transparently a fiddle. I'm surprised anybody ever believed they would get away with it.

When I was in that line of work I used an umbrella company and had all my earnings paid as wages with tax and NI. I knew some other people who formed a syndicate and maximised dividends.

It can be useful to be able to show a high salary when applying for a mortgage or making pension contributions, especially when you have the same "employer" for years on end and you are not a director or the sole employee.

Ok can you explain why HMRC happily issued APN's for DOTAS registered schemes? (Schemes HMRC knew about for years waved them through as they were 'technically correct and approved by QC's etc') Then one day thought hmm now weve let these mature for ten or so years lets go after them with interest, what a plan.

 

[SirGalahad]

It's been around over 20 years. With all due respect I don't think you have a Scooby. IT contractor for 27 years, NI fully paid.

Lol. I have been a contractor myself. Currently not. So yeah I know the ins and outs.

 

[SirGalahad]

I will await how things transpire post April. Will be interesting no doubt.

A few friends have formed an LLP but they have set up their own consultancy, looks like they have more demand in South Africa at the moment than the UK.

 

[noseall]

They pay an NI rate that is about half what Employer's plus Employee's contributions would be.

IIRC they can't claim Jobseekers Allowance

What about people who were employed as PAYE for half of their working life and then spent the other half as self employed? Do those years as PAYE NI contributors count for nothing?

 

[EddieM]

Ok can you explain why HMRC happily issued APN's for DOTAS registered schemes? (Schemes HMRC knew about for years waved them through as they were 'technically correct and approved by QC's etc') Then one day thought hmm now weve let these mature for ten or so years lets go after them with interest, what a plan.

Madness innit, where does the blame really lie, yep the inept HMRC.

 

[noseall]

what a plan.

Cunning eh. Greedy tax dodging barstools getting what they deserve.

Pay up time.