Doctors threaten to quit NHS over shortage of protective kit

[SirGalahad]

Other than start work on a ventilator design, donating all our ffp3 masks and surplus hand sanitizer to our local hospital, put my hand in my own pocket to pay my staff and not take a salary myself until I know that the company will survive?

Clearly nothing.

So what have you done to help the country?

I am organising funds to help pay for PPE equipment for primary care. I have committments for 25k and possibly upto 100k. Primary care has been left off the conversation.

I had a nice chat with a lady at 3M - all their supply has been committed to other organisations, countries and NHS Hospitals. I did mention to her we were trying further afield to get supplies but warned you cannot guarantee that these suppliers will meet the requirements. It's best to get supplies from witin the EU. This lead onto another point which is why is the UK not being part of the current scheme led by the EU to secure PPE supplies - they are expecting deliveries within 2 weeks.

But back to Primary care. The Government hasn't given any guidance as to what they will fund, they have said keep receipts and we will refund later.

So primary care and specifically GPs cannot go out and buy everything they think they will need as they are unsure whether they will be refunded.

Let me give you an example GPs may require washing machines. Once these people are self isolating - who is going to go see them if they are ill? GPs. Do they have full aprons, gowns. masks etc to wear? Do they have visors?

Ideally staff should change at work, get into their equipment go out and then when they return get this equipment washed on site - sending it to third parties will only spread the infection.

So I hope that helps.

 

[SirGalahad]

Kicked his tenants out for not paying the rent.

More lies.

 

[SirGalahad]

Other than start work on a ventilator design, donating all our ffp3 masks and surplus hand sanitizer to our local hospital, put my hand in my own pocket to pay my staff and not take a salary myself until I know that the company will survive?

Is it yout company? Have your sales / orders stopped? If so then repurposing your production to ventilators means at least you can get some income when you sell them to the NHS.

 

[Nige F]

Ideally staff should change at work, get into their equipment go out and then when they return get this equipment washed on site - sending it to third parties will only spread the infection.

Indeed so , but that outsourcing @hospitals has been around for decades, the laundrys have probably been stripped out years ago.

 

[SirGalahad]

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1242724273942401026

A nurse has criticised the government’s preparations for the pandemic after revealing she was asked to share protective masks and filters with colleagues because her hospital does not have enough equipment.

Speaking to Good Morning Britain, Lorraine warned that the NHS was heading into a “war zone” as the “tsunami” of the pandemic hits.

Her comments come after the chair of the Doctors’ Association UK told the Guardian that doctors will be forced to leave the profession during the coronavirus pandemic due to the lack of protective equipment.

 

[durhamplumber]

More lies.

Guilty conscience Gal?

 

[SirGalahad]

Guilty conscience Gal?

Provide evidence or retract your lies. Your choice.

 

[Notch7]

If it were that silly, you'd be able to come up with some counter argument. You can't.
Join Galahad and call me names instead, it's far easier and requires no intelligence whatsoever.

The purpose of government is to direct at national level.

You are arguing that regional hospital trusts should have been purchasing excess PPE sticks and ventilators without direction from central government.
You are wrong, but youve dug yourself a hole and you are intent digging deeper.

You made a rather silly strawman, which makes you look silly. Its a simple fact.

 

[fillyboy]

The purpose of government is to direct at national level.

You are arguing that regional hospital trusts should have been purchasing excess PPE sticks and ventilators without direction from central government.
You are wrong, but youve dug yourself a hole and you are intent digging deeper.

You made a rather silly strawman, which makes you look silly. Its a simple fact.

If you take a glance at the PPE at Work Regulations 1992, it will tell you exactly who is responsible for providing PPE equipment, the employer. Gal said PPE equipment wasn't ordered because no direction was given by the govt and no funds were made available.

It requires direction and crucially funds from the top which was lacking.

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...of-protective-kit.541501/page-2#ixzz6HihlJ4yX

 

[SirGalahad]

If you take a glance at the PPE at Work Regulations 1992, it will tell you exactly who is responsible for providing PPE equipment, the employer. Gal said PPE equipment wasn't ordered because no direction was given by the govt and no funds were made available.

It requires direction and crucially funds from the top which was lacking.

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...of-protective-kit.541501/page-2#ixzz6HihlJ4yX

Your argument is another strawman.

Your argument is if Bojo declared war it would be his job to don his khakis and fight.

You never once answered the question when did the funding actually become available as you know full well it wasn't given until Rish budget.

How many times must you persist with this debunked reasoning.

 

[fillyboy]

Your argument is if Bojo declared war it would be his job to don his khakis and fight.

Er, no my argument is the complete opposite of that, it's the Armed Forces job.
With regard to funding 'not being available', why wouldn't the management just order the stuff anyway? do trusts never exceed their budgets and worry about it afterwards?

You've implied there is a lack of PPE because the Govt didn't instruct NHS trusts to order it and wouldn't let them have the money in any case.
NHS over spend last year was about 4 billion,

You're telling lies purely to score political points against the Govt, it's all you ever do.

 

[SirGalahad]

Er, no my argument is the complete opposite of that, it's the Armed Forces job.
With regard to funding 'not being available', why wouldn't the management just order the stuff anyway? do trusts never exceed their budgets and worry about it afterwards?

You've implied there is a lack of PPE because the Govt didn't instruct NHS trusts to order it and wouldn't let them have the money in any case.
NHS over spend last year was about 4 billion,

You're telling lies purely to score political points against the Govt, it's all you ever do.

You just argued against yourself again. If trusts are so underfunded that they overspent on just running the service then they have no money to buy extra equipment unless the Gov releases funds.

How many times do you do this. Every argument you have you end arguing against it.

So tell me when was the funds given to the NHS and how much has been spent?

Sillyboy.

 

[fillyboy]

You just argued against yourself again. If trusts are so underfunded that they overspent on just running the service then they have no money to buy extra equipment unless the Gov releases funds.

How many times do you do this. Every argument you have you end arguing against it.

So tell me when was the funds given to the NHS and how much has been spent?

Sillyboy.

I think you need to re-read my post or sober up.

 

[fillyboy]

Article by the World Health Organisation. Oddly enough, governments withholding funds doesn't seem to be the issue, and surprise surprise, even countries without a conservative government seem to be affected.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detai...quipment-endangering-health-workers-worldwide

Shortage of personal protective equipment endangering health workers worldwide
3 March 2020
News release
Geneva

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WHO calls on industry and governments to increase manufacturing by 40 per cent to meet rising global demand

The World Health Organization has warned that severe and mounting disruption to the global supply of personal protective equipment (PPE) – caused by rising demand, panic buying, hoarding and misuse – is putting lives at risk from the new coronavirus and other infectious diseases.

Healthcare workers rely on personal protective equipment to protect themselves and their patients from being infected and infecting others.

But shortages are leaving doctors, nurses and other frontline workers dangerously ill-equipped to care for COVID-19 patients, due to limited access to supplies such as gloves, medical masks, respirators, goggles, face shields, gowns, and aprons.

“Without secure supply chains, the risk to healthcare workers around the world is real. Industry and governments must act quickly to boost supply, ease export restrictions and put measures in place to stop speculation and hoarding. We can’t stop COVID-19 without protecting health workers first,” said WHO Director-General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.

Since the start of the COVID-19 outbreak, prices have surged. Surgical masks have seen a sixfold increase, N95 respirators have trebled and gowns have doubled.

Supplies can take months to deliver and market manipulation is widespread, with stocks frequently sold to the highest bidder.

WHO has so far shipped nearly half a million sets of personal protective equipment to 47 countries,* but supplies are rapidly depleting.

Based on WHO modelling, an estimated 89 million medical masks are required for the COVID-19 response each month. For examination gloves, that figure goes up to 76 million, while international demand for goggles stands at 1.6 million per month.

Recent WHO guidance calls for the rational and appropriate use of PPE in healthcare settings, and the effective management of supply chains.

WHO is working with governments, industry and the Pandemic Supply Chain Network to boost production and secure allocations for critically affected and at-risk countries.

To meet rising global demand, WHO estimates that industry must increase manufacturing by 40 per cent.

Governments should develop incentives for industry to ramp up production. This includes easing restrictions on the export and distribution of personal protective equipment and other medical supplies.

Every day, WHO is providing guidance, supporting secure supply chains, and delivering critical equipment to countries in need.

 

[Notch7]

If you take a glance at the PPE at Work Regulations 1992, it will tell you exactly who is responsible for providing PPE equipment, the employer.

Exactly.
So the employer is following the work regulations, which are central government policy.

Regional health trusts do not decide on procurement for a national emergency, because the people who have the information are the government.

President Xi didnt ring my local hospital to suggest getting more masks, did he?
Who did he ring?