Dawn Butler exposed

[Lower]

If you address the effects without addressing the cause, then you are exacerbating the situation, not reducing it.
Moreover, if your addressing the effects increases the very problem that caused the situation in the first place, that policy is not only counter-productive, it is perceived as doubling-down on the real cause.

When high profile BAME people suffer from perceived racial profiling, they have the opportunity and the means to highlight the issue, the cause.
When John Smith, who is an unknown, suffers such discrimination, he does not have the means to highlight his problem. Also, he perceives it as 'the norm' because he's had to endure it all his life, and he doesn't see anything changing any time soon.

Your criticism of high profile BAME people taking the opportunity to highlight their treatment is not addressing the real problem, it is attempting to shift the blame.

I've clearly said that you need to address the cause as well as the effect.

Dawn Butler didn't address the cause, she didn't highlight their actual treatment, she highlighted the image she wanted to portray.

I do blame Dawn Butler for pouring petrol onto a fire. I also believe that the black community has to acknowledge that the problems it has with the police are not purely down to the police. I don't think that's attempting to shift the blame, its highlighting the reality of the situation. Until we acknowledge that its a two sided problem that the police and government cannot fix on their own, its not going to get better.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Just goes to show that she exhibits poor judgement.

Again, your comment is not relevant to my quote.

She might just have cemented her vote going forward though, as the candidate that stands with the disaffected.....
So, high office unlikely, but guaranteed safe seat.

Are you suggesting that she was driving round for hours, waiting for the opportunity to film a stop and search, for her own publicity?

Maybe some white high profile people ought to try that to prove that the police do not racially profile others.

 

[Lower]

Do you think that would be surprising news they have never heard before?

When someone mentioned it the first time, did that cure the problem?

How about the second, third, fourth.... ten thousandth time?

In the current climate, i do think she could have contributed to curing the problem. Further increasing the distrust of the police by the black community did not help at all.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Hmm, your response is not relevant to my quote.

Irrelevant.

Additionally, if the subject is subjective, how can you determine if anyone is lying? The body camera footage has not been released to prove one way or t'other. Perhaps there is no other body camera footage.

​

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Your criticism of high profile BAME people taking the opportunity to highlight their treatment is not addressing the real problem, it is attempting to shift the blame.

Butler did that by lying.

Irrelevant.

Please explain how criticising Dawn Butler is addressing the real problem, or is not taking the opportunity to shift the blame.

Please explain how Dawn Butler's comments were not addressing the real problem, or were attempting to shift the blame.

Please explain how you arrived at the conclusion that Dawn Butler was lying.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I've clearly said that you need to address the cause as well as the effect.

Dawn Butler didn't address the cause, she didn't highlight their actual treatment, she highlighted the image she wanted to portray.

If the real problem is society's discrimination against BAME people, then she was addressing the problem.
She cannot, alone, address the real problem. It is for successive governments (and other institutions ) to address it.
She can help to highlight the real problem.

I do blame Dawn Butler for pouring petrol onto a fire.

Of course you do. You will continue to do so, until you accept what is the real underlying problem.

I also believe that the black community has to acknowledge that the problems it has with the police are not purely down to the police.

If you have a problem with your neighbour, and despite frequent and numerous attempts to address it, nothing happens, where do you go next?

I don't think that's attempting to shift the blame, its highlighting the reality of the situation. Until we acknowledge that its a two sided problem that the police and government cannot fix on their own, its not going to get better.

If the police and government refuse to accept that there is a problem, or do little or nothing about it, why should the victims of decades, even centuries of the unfair treatment be expected to address the problem, other than produce the evidence of such discrimination, evidence which you and others then seek to dismiss as lying, publicity stunts, etc.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

In the current climate, i do think she could have contributed to curing the problem. Further increasing the distrust of the police by the black community did not help at all.

You mean like all the Rights marchers of yesteryear, and still the problems persists.

 

[Brigadier]

Are you suggesting that she was driving round for hours, waiting for the opportunity to film a stop and search, for her own publicity?

As you so eloquently put it.....

Again, your comment is not relevant to my quote.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

As you so eloquently put it.....

Perhaps you'd like to explain the relevance of your response to my comment re-printed below?
Instead of making meaningless statements.

Just goes to show that she exhibits poor judgement.
She might just have cemented her vote going forward though, as the candidate that stands with the disaffected.....
So, high office unlikely, but guaranteed safe seat.

Or perhaps you were referring to this comment of mine, although you obviously weren't, otherwise you would have quoted that comment?
Unless you don't really know what comment you wanted to quote? You just felt like saying something but couldn't find anything of relevance?

Are you suggesting that she was driving round for hours, waiting for the opportunity to film a stop and search, for her own publicity?
Maybe some white high profile people ought to try that to prove that the police do not racially profile others.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I take it that you think that anything untoward that happens to Dawn Butler is because she is black.

Please do not forget that she was not driving.


So, like Butler, I can say that I once got stopped for speeding by the police. Strangely enough they did not say a word to me and nothing happened to me but my friend had to go to court and was fined and given points on his licence because he was driving.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I take it that you think that anything untoward that happens to Dawn Butler is because she is black.

Only in so much that the car in which she was travelling, and being driven by someone else who is black, was stopped unnecessarily, and it happens disproportionately to black people. So it doesn't relate to anything untoward that happens to Dawn Butler, that is something that you've imagined. Probably because that is your only argument, and you are trying to put words into my mouth.
It is concerning only the disproportionate amount of black people, and the number of times, that they are stopped and searched.

Please do not forget that she was not driving.

All those black people walking along the street that were stopped and searched were not driving either.

So, like Butler, I can say that I once got stopped for speeding by the police. Strangely enough they did not say a word to me and nothing happened to me but my friend had to go to court and was fined and given points on his licence because he was driving.

You were stopped for a reason, because the car you were in was speeding. That is not random and obviously not racial profiling. Normally passengers are not fined or awarded points for being in a car that was speeding, unless they were assisting the driver in some way.
That does not apply to racial profiling. It's the occupants of the car that relates to racial profiling, not just the driver, but you knew that, at least I think you did.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

In the current climate, i do think she could have contributed to curing the problem. Further increasing the distrust of the police by the black community did not help at all.

If the police break into your house, perhaps on poor intel, and explain that it was their mistake, somebody input the wrong address into their computer, would you say, "that's OK chaps, it happens to us regularly, and to others like us, so don't worry, here's a few quid for data input lessons."

 

[Brigadier]

Are you suggesting that she was driving round for hours, waiting for the opportunity to film a stop and search, for her own publicity?

, and you are trying to put words into my mouth.

Really?


You really are like a dog with two doodahs, when it comes to race threads

 

[EFLImpudence]

If the police break into your house, perhaps on poor intel, and explain that it was their mistake, somebody input the wrong address into their computer, would you say, "that's OK chaps, it happens to us regularly, and to others like us, so don't worry, here's a few quid for data input lessons."

I take it that you think the police should never break into a house just in case the intel. is wrong.

 

[transam]

One of our apprentices 19 at the time

He had a new van

He was always getting stopped by plod on a regular basis in particular in the evening

Dunno what he or we could blame it on

He is not black or Asian so the race card cannot be played

Hmmmm perhaps Himagin could come up with something