Oh dear notch confuses sunshine with cosmic rays that can affect the climate from millions of light years away
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Man made climate change
- Thread starter gant
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It's been many years since I have thought about climate change in this amount of detail. I'd forgotten how complex and overwhelming it can be once you start digging a bit deeper. But following these recent threads, I've got a better appreciation now of why lots of people still don't accept it fully, and that has been really interesting. I don't mean because they are correct. Just that it can be extremely difficult to get your head around it all, and I can see how easy it is to go down the wrong path into denial, but still with the best of intentions. I also have even greater respect for climate scientists. It's a common denier meme to denigrate climate science. But it's actually really tricky and multi faceted, combining several disciplines as varied as geology, meteorology and physics.
I believe the obvious starting point for everyone who still has doubts, should be whether they accept the basic physics, established almost two hundred years ago, that certain gases absorb infra red radiation and heat up. Everything else follows from that.
Next, do they accept that greenhouse gases naturally keep the earth warm, and that without them the earth would be a giant ball of ice. Then following on from this, if they accept a certain amount of greenhouse gases keep the earth warm, do they accept that adding more greenhouse gases will make the earth even warmer.
The trickiest part, perhaps, is accepting the reason that the earth's temperature has been so incredibly stable for almost ten thousand years, and has allowed humans to flourish. This is because of two very complex systems, which have both been in almost perfect equilibrium. One is the earth's carbon cycle and the other is the earth's energy balance. Burning fossil fuels and other human activity has changed both. Although the human impacts may be quite small compared with the natural forces, it is enough to throw out these perfect equilibriums. That might be the hardest bit of all to understand and accept.
I believe the obvious starting point for everyone who still has doubts, should be whether they accept the basic physics, established almost two hundred years ago, that certain gases absorb infra red radiation and heat up. Everything else follows from that.
Next, do they accept that greenhouse gases naturally keep the earth warm, and that without them the earth would be a giant ball of ice. Then following on from this, if they accept a certain amount of greenhouse gases keep the earth warm, do they accept that adding more greenhouse gases will make the earth even warmer.
The trickiest part, perhaps, is accepting the reason that the earth's temperature has been so incredibly stable for almost ten thousand years, and has allowed humans to flourish. This is because of two very complex systems, which have both been in almost perfect equilibrium. One is the earth's carbon cycle and the other is the earth's energy balance. Burning fossil fuels and other human activity has changed both. Although the human impacts may be quite small compared with the natural forces, it is enough to throw out these perfect equilibriums. That might be the hardest bit of all to understand and accept.
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There are indications that solar storms / the degree of activity of the sun can have an effect on the weather. Seems someone got confused and thought cosmic rays.
The El Nino has it's interesting aspects. Pretty marginal sea temperature changes. Warming in this case. The current period may part explain recent unusual weather changes here - rain but it does boost global temperatures. More evaporation means more to come down. Nice world map of the effects here but it is rather variable.
What are El Niño and La Niña, and how do they change the weather?
Global temperatures and rain patterns are affected by a climate phenomenon known as El Niño/La Niña.
www.bbc.co.uk
No I am talking cosmic rays from anything from black holes to supernovas and the rest and not anything to do with the sun.
Ah poor Aveatry posts yet another climate change myth
Why Solar Activity And Cosmic Rays Can’t Explain Global Warming
The myth that global warming is explained by solar or cosmic activity has resurfaced. An actual climate scientist debunks it.
www.forbes.com
What's the link between cosmic rays and climate change?
<p>While the link between cosmic rays and cloud cover is yet to be confirmed, more importantly, there has been no correlation between cosmic rays and global temperatures over the last 30 years of global warming.</p>
skepticalscience.com
Climate myths: It's all down to cosmic rays
A cosmic connection? Recent changes in solar activity and cosmic rays See all climate myths in our special feature. It has been claimed that the amount of cloud cover – and hence global temperature – depends on cosmic ray intensity but neither satellite records nor computer models support this...
www.newscientist.com
Is the Sun causing global warming? - NASA Science
No. The Sun can influence Earth’s climate, but it isn’t responsible for the warming trend we’ve seen over recent decades. The Sun is a giver of life; it helps
science.nasa.gov
Still completely wrong
That's a theory pushed mainly by one scientist, where cosmic rays help clouds form and this affects global warming. It's been debunked many times. For instance, a large experiment showed that when cosmic rays were at their highest, cloud formation was particularly low.
Just for my hard of reading stalker on here. I never said they were responsible for climate change - go and read what I said again.Ah poor Aveatry posts yet another climate change myth
Why Solar Activity And Cosmic Rays Can’t Explain Global Warming
The myth that global warming is explained by solar or cosmic activity has resurfaced. An actual climate scientist debunks it.
What's the link between cosmic rays and climate change?
<p>While the link between cosmic rays and cloud cover is yet to be confirmed, more importantly, there has been no correlation between cosmic rays and global temperatures over the last 30 years of global warming.</p>skepticalscience.com
Climate myths: It's all down to cosmic rays
A cosmic connection? Recent changes in solar activity and cosmic rays See all climate myths in our special feature. It has been claimed that the amount of cloud cover – and hence global temperature – depends on cosmic ray intensity but neither satellite records nor computer models support this...
Is the Sun causing global warming? - NASA Science
No. The Sun can influence Earth’s climate, but it isn’t responsible for the warming trend we’ve seen over recent decades. The Sun is a giver of life; it helps
Its good that you and my stalker notch have just googled it and are now learning new stuff - I have known about this theory for years.
Notch didn't even know what a cosmic ray was - he thought it was sunshine --- bless
I've actually been aware of it, as well, for many years and that is has been comprehensively debunked many times. In fact, I thought it had died a death more than a decade ago, but it looks like it's one of those zombie theories which keep coming back.
Can you answer a simple question. Do you agree that there are greenhouse gases naturally present in the atmosphere which keep the earth much warmer than it would otherwise be? (The usual amount of warming attributed to these gases is 33C. So, without them, the earth would be a giant ball of ice.)
Is it all going to go t i t s up within the next 30-40 years?
If not, couldn't give a feck.
If not, couldn't give a feck.
That doesn't actually surprise me.
Nope its still a theory and was recently mentioned in a piece on the NOAA website.
Reminds me of the folk who walked about wearing sandwich boards 100-200 years back professing 'the end is nigh' ...
An argument used by the global warming swindle group - the shear size of the natural aspects related to our contribution. No mention of how much we have already changed that long ago due to agriculture but a separate subject. A natural aspect in many areas is tree cover over a high proportion of the land.
Fact is that we can see a problem is coming due to the rate of rise and there is a mechanism that can control it. In some respects the cause of this rise is irrelevant. We can do things to control it even maybe bring temperatures back down - but maybe just in theory. One big risk is changes in ocean current flow. Chaos if they have a tipping point. The gulf stream for instance is very important to the UK.
Previous changes in global temperature. They have happened and some doubt about why but there are ideas around. It possible to search for climatic effects of any age eg iron age you might care to mention. Here is an odd one. Not too long.
Stone Age climate change which led to a boom in Scandinavian population and resources could tell us more about the future of global warming
As global temperatures increased after the end of the last Ice Age, sea levels rose and the land bridge which tied together Denmark and Sweden disappeared, turning the region into a series of islands and shallow fjords that have characterised it ever since.
www.lboro.ac.uk
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