Woman and Sex, means biological sex.

[Deleted member 323070]

Can we start with the basics, because I am still learning about this stuff.

My understanding is that there are only two genetic sexes. Even the exceptions you talk about i.e. those people with DSDs, are still genetically either male or female. There is no third genetic sex. Is that what you believe as well?

The Government recognises that there is a third category. But they choose not to accommodate for it.
From the Census questions:

1. Recommendations for Census 2021
2. Final “What is your sex?” question guidance for Census 2021

1.Overview of testing and guidance for Census 2021 sex question​

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) has conducted a comprehensive programme of research and testing to finalise Census 2021 questions and guidance. Along with the Census 2021 topic consultation, this confirmed the ongoing strength of need for data on sex. We provide a full list of the tests used in the development of the Census 2021 questionnaire in the summary of testing for Census 20211. As a result, the ONS recommended:

• the 2011 Census sex question wording and response options should not be changed
• the sex question should state that a question on gender identity will follow
• the response options "Male" and "Female" should be listed in alphabetical order

The research leading to these recommendations is available in Sex and gender identity question development for Census 20211.
Details of the guidance used in the 2019 Rehearsal (2019:15), and a summary of the research that informed its development, was published in September 2019 in Guidance for questions on sex, gender identity and sexual orientation for the 2019 Census Rehearsal for the 2021 Census.
In the guidance report we committed to reviewing the "What is your sex?" question guidance following the 2019 Rehearsal. This report describes the results of that review. A report on the additional qualitative testing (2020:6) conducted as part of this work will be published separately.

Notes for: Overview of testing and guidance for Census 2021 sex question​

1. References to tests take the form (year:test number). "Year" refers to the calendar year the test was undertaken in and the test number is the position of the test within all testing that took place in that year. For example, the fifth test conducted in 2017 would be referenced as (2017:5).

Back to table of contents

2.Recommendations for Census 2021​

Following the review of the question guidance we have made three recommendations:

• the target concept of the question "What is your sex?" is sex as recorded on legal/official documents
• those who have physical sex development that is different to what is generally expected of males and females should not be provided with guidance suggesting they could provide this information in the gender identity question

Census 2021: Final guidance for the question “What is your sex?” - Office for National Statistics

How we evaluated the results of our research and testing to finalise the Census 2021 online help guidance for the question “What is your sex?”. Aims to ensure that it is in line with the target concept of sex being sex as recorded on legal and official documents and is publicly acceptable.

www.ons.gov.uk

The medical profession recognise that not everyone is born either male or female:

Intersex is an umbrella term that describes bodies that fall outside the strict male/female binary. There are lots of ways someone can be intersex.

What is Intersex? | Definition of Intersexual

The intersex definition is a person is born with a combination of male and female biological traits. There are several different intersex conditions.

www.plannedparenthood.org

Despite those claims that everyone is born either male or female, there are some born that do not fit into the binary concept of male or female.
It's like the South African categories of "white", "black" or "coloured". Many were categorised into absurd and ill-fitting categories.

It's just blatant denial of the obvious.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

No, they followed the correct path at the time. They weren't saying "shall we make it a boy, or shall we make it a girl". they were correcting "conditions" in an already determined sex.

They were making assumptions based on appearances.

 

[Koolpc]

As barking appears to have become your de facto response, is it fair to assume it's also your comfort blanket?

Maybe I could get myself a dog whistle.

Is your comfort blanket a woke magazine?

 

[Koolpc]

As for the frequency of my posts, I'm off work at the moment recuperating. So I'm entertaining myself.

Have you had a sex change?

 

[Notch7]

The Government recognises that there is a third category. But they choose not to accommodate for it.
From the Census questions:

Census 2021: Final guidance for the question “What is your sex?” - Office for National Statistics

How we evaluated the results of our research and testing to finalise the Census 2021 online help guidance for the question “What is your sex?”. Aims to ensure that it is in line with the target concept of sex being sex as recorded on legal and official documents and is publicly acceptable.

www.ons.gov.uk

The medical profession recognise that not everyone is born either male or female:

What is Intersex? | Definition of Intersexual

The intersex definition is a person is born with a combination of male and female biological traits. There are several different intersex conditions.

www.plannedparenthood.org

Despite those claims that everyone is born either male or female, there are some born that do not fit into the binary concept of male or female.
It's like the South African categories of "white", "black" or "coloured". Many were categorised into absurd and ill-fitting categories.

It's just blatant denial of the obvious.

Hi Himmie, are you still living in France?

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Is your comfort blanket a woke magazine?

Have you had a sex change?

Hi Himmie, are you still living in France?

How are these questions remotely relevant to the discussion?

 

[MNW67]

The Government recognises that there is a third category. But they choose not to accommodate for it.
From the Census questions:

Despite those claims that everyone is born either male or female, there are some born that do not fit into the binary concept of male or female.
It's like the South African categories of "white", "black" or "coloured". Many were categorised into absurd and ill-fitting categories.

It's just blatant denial of the obvious.

This is part of the problem with these discussions. The terminology often gets mixed up and the issues get conflated. Can we go back to the question I asked and then move on from there. Do you agree, as the most basic starting point that, on a genetic level, there are only two sexes, male and female. Then we can move onto to discuss whether, in a broader sense, there might sometimes be more than two "biological" sexes.

 

[Odds]

This is part of the problem with these discussions. The terminology often gets mixed up and the issues get conflated. Can we go back to the question I asked and then move on from there. Do you agree, as the most basic starting point that, on a genetic level, there are only two sexes, male and female. Then we can move onto to discuss whether, in a broader sense, there might sometimes be more than two "biological" sexes.

That's why i asked JohnD where he stood on androgyny.
He keeps wanging on about kittens without really thinking why.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

The nearest estimate of the number of transexuals in UK is from the 2021 Census:

Of residents aged 16 years and over, 0.54% (or 262,000 people) answered in the negative, which the ONS presented as ‘the first official data on the size of the transgender population’.

Flawed census question leads to inaccurate data on gender identity

30 April 2024

www.sociology.ox.ac.uk

But due to the discrimination (as is obvious in this discussion) I'm guessing that an awful lot of transgender people are unwilling to disclose their prefered gender.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

This is part of the problem with these discussions. The terminology often gets mixed up and the issues get conflated. Can we go back to the question I asked and then move on from there. Do you agree, as the most basic starting point that, on a genetic level, there are only two sexes, male and female. Then we can move onto to discuss whether, in a broader sense, there might sometimes be more than two "biological" sexes.

I accept that the scientific. medical and legal world only recognise two biological sexes.
But I don't accept that that binary choice accommodates all the possibilities. And that in reality biological sexual development is a spectrum, with the binary choice of male and female the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Rather like arguing that there is only homosexuality and hetrosexuality, and that no other options exist.
We now recognise that sexuality is a spectrum with numerous and unquantifiable options exist between hetrosexuality and homosexuality.

 

[Odds]

A bit like saying there's only black or white and failing to recognise the spectrum of colour between - a rainbow, if you will.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

A bit like saying there's only black or white and failing to recognise the spectrum of colour between - a rainbow, if you will.

Exactly, or even the shades of grey.
And I see what you did there.

 

[MNW67]

Exactly, or even the shades of grey.
And I see what you did there.

This research seems to be a good starting point:

Sex continuum in the brain and body during adolescence and psychological traits - Nature Human Behaviour

Vosberg et al. have developed a continuous measure of biological sex in an adolescent cohort, based on quantitative traits of the brain and body. Within each sex, these ‘sex scores’ are associated with sex hormones and personality traits.

www.nature.com

 

[johnny2007]

A man can her live her life as a woman, if she so wishes, and your empty comments can not prevent that.

Hey Himmy, how you doing?
Remember my advice?
First rule: pretend to have landed on a diy forum for diy advice...

 

[denso13]

They were making assumptions based on appearances.

No, trained professionals recording facts. Nothing more.