Woman and Sex, means biological sex.

[denso13]

So medical science, especially in neonatal care, never makes mistakes?

Of course it can.

Here is a recent publication of guidelines dealing with the assessment of newborn babies, published in 2023.
You can scoot down to the section dealing with genitalia.

Seems sensible.

I'm sorry, I thought this was a flat refusal to consider an alternative:

I don't see any difference in those two statements.

 

[MNW67]

Do you accept that same babies are born intersex?

Intersex is an old term that has been dropped because it is confusing. They now use the term DSD.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

That biological sex is binary.

The article deals with comparing of 'biological' sex characteristics with gender in humans in comparison with animals and the reproductive/sexual attraction processes.
The opening two sentences clarifies and clearly elucidates the purpose of the article:

Are sex and gender interchangeable terms? In classical biology, both are sometimes but not always used on an equal basis for some groups of animals. However, for our own species the Homo sapiens, they are not.

Only two sex forms but multiple gender variants: How to explain? - PMC

Are sex and gender interchangeable terms? In classical biology, both are sometimes but not always used on an equal basis for some groups of animals. However, for our own species the Homo sapiens, they are not. A major question is why are there only ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

i.e. gender and biological sex in animals other than humans is interchangeable. But in humans the gender and biological sex is not interchangeable.
It does not claim nor state that sex is binary.

But I would also wholeheartedly agree that sex and gender in humans is not interchangeable. I believe that argument has been well and truly established for a long time.

 

[Highway Man]

But I would also wholeheartedly agree that sex and gender in humans is not interchangeable. I believe that argument has been well and truly established for a long time.

`well at least since page 1 of this scientific debate on DIYnot.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Intersex is an old term that has been dropped because it is confusing. They now use the term DSD.

Terminology moves and changes over time.
I personally don't like the term DSD, it suggest a deviation of sex development. And deviation suggests abnormality.
I personally do not see the spectrum of sex development as deviations.

Yes, the terms "Disorders of Sex Development" (DSD) and "intersex" are often used interchangeably, referring to the same group of individuals. DSDs, which were previously called intersex conditions, encompass variations in sex characteristics that don't fit typical definitions of male or female. While some people with DSDs prefer the term "difference of sex development," others find the term "intersex" acceptable or even prefer it.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Of course it can.

And how do you think that mistakes in assigning the sex of babies affects the individuals?

Seems sensible.

Quite. But such detailed examination of newborns is a very recent innovation.
Prior to the publication of such guidelines, various procedures were adopted depending on the whim of the birth attendant, or even no birth attendant.

I don't see any difference in those two statements.

You refuse to peruse any of the numerous presented medical/neonatal articles.
That looks like a flat refusal to consider alternative arguments, of distinguished medical professionals to me.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

There was an excellent discussion on Radio 4 yesterday, called Sex, Gender and the NHS.
I recommend y'all to listen to it:

BBC Radio 4 - AntiSocial - Downloads

Podcast downloads for AntiSocial

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[denso13]

And how do you think that mistakes in assigning the sex of babies affects the individuals?

Probably some confusion as they grow up.

Quite. But such detailed examination of newborns is a very recent innovation.

That tends to happen in all walks of life. Things generally improve.

You refuse to peruse any of the numerous presented medical/neonatal articles.

Not at all. You refuse to accept that people can have different opinions.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

What's "woke"?

The opposite of not woke.

Don't ask me any more on that, I'm not getting into a ping pong debate on it. Go do some Googling ...

 

[Deleted member 323070]

They are opinions.

Yes the opinions of distinguished and experienced medical professionals.
I prefer them to the unsupported and flimsy beliefs and claims of some DIYers.

I understand their arguments but I do not agree with them.

Your prerogative But the earth is not flat. When we are presented with such distinguished opinions we tend to question the validity of our beliefs and previous understanding.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

No, but they can confirm a factual position.

They interpret scientific factual positions to meet the requirements of the laws.
They cannot confirm the science to be correct or incorrect.

Some examples have been provided: illegality of suicide, euthanasia/assisted dying.

Other times laws are adjusted or adapted to varying scenarios.

But as laws are social constructs, they are not infallible.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

It is a sad and sorry state of affairs that we now have to have a judge and a court ruling to tell us what a woman is.

They haven't. Science, especially the medical branch defines what female and male means.
All the court decided is that 'woman' and 'man' refers to the sex assigned at birth, not the gender adopted.

But I believe that the ends of the spectrums are male and female. And there is a spectrum of variations along that continuum.
That then questions the validity of the term 'biological sex'.
If biological sex exists on a spectrum, the term 'biological sex' is a misnomer.
A more appropriate term would be 'recorded sex' which refers to the sex assigned at birth.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

I accept some cases are more difficult than others but that the correct sex is recorded after examination, boy or girl.. Everyone is entitled to lead their lives the way the wish, irrespective of what is recorded.

The recent SC decision put paid to that freedom. The gender adopted does not allow transgender to use 'single sex' spaces. They have to use the space assigned to their 'recorded sex'.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Probably some confusion as they grow up.

Probably creating mental anguish, discrimination, etc.
I'm glad we agreed on that.
The cart and the horse are now in their correctly allotted positions.

That tends to happen in all walks of life. Things generally improve.

Yes. the situation is becoming more clear that sex is not binary in the scientific and medical sense.
But the law declares that sex is binary because they are the only options available.

Not at all. You refuse to accept that people can have different opinions.

Oh no. You are welcome to your opinion.
We are having a debate on a scientific and medical matter.
We are free to arrive at our preferred conclusions, with the evidence presented.
To refuse to consider that evidence means not arriving at a sensible and well-informed conclusion.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

The opposite of not woke.

Don't ask me any more on that, I'm not getting into a ping pong debate on it. Go do some Googling ...

I am going to rewrite the dictionary according to diy_fun_uk's definitions:

Dark = not light
light = not dark.
Go= not stopping
stop=not going.
heavy=not light
far=not near
alive=not dead
bendy=not straight
straight=not bendy

I reckon I could rewrite a whole dictionary in a couple of days.