Boiler installer left old flue hole open

[CountryFan]

Coming back to the issue of the flue position, would could the consequences be if it were determined to be too close to the soffits, eaves or window?

If products of combustion were to enter then illness or death dependent on certain factors.

Can that be rectified without having to do major work? Or could it mean the flue must be moved again, and consequently probably the boiler as well? Would the boiler need to be deactivated immediately or would there be time allowed to arrange to do remedial work? Would I have recourse to recover the costs of any remedial work from the installers?

Not really, it would mean the flue would need to be moved again. If no products of combustion are circulating then it’s not to standards, if they are then it’s immediately dangerous. Others and myself have pointed you towards contacting gas safe if you’re not happy with the work

 

[Peter Rabbit]

OK, to try and judge whether I should have a serious concern here, I looked up the relevant part of the manufacturer's instructions for the Vaillant ecoFIT pure 830: link p.13. Relevant points are as I understand it are:

B 1)	The dimension below eaves, balconies and car ports can be reduced to this value, as long as the flue terminal is extended to clear any overhang. External flue joints must be sealed with a suitable silicon sealant.	25mm
1)	There should be no ventilation/opening in the eaves within 300 mm distance of the terminal.
J	Above, below and either side of an opening door, air vent or opening window.	300mm
Q	Below eaves. Below gutters, pipe and drains.	200 mm 75 mm

As I understand it, point Q does not apply for the eaves if the flue terminal extends beyond any overhang.

I judged distances from my photo 1 and photo 2, assuming the bricks are close to being standard size.

From photo 1, I would estimate that the flue extends about half way up the top row of bricks. From photo 2, that the vents above are about in line with the top of the top row of bricks in photo 1. So the vertical distance is about half a brick, or 30mm, larger than 25mm (though plausible error could put it below).

The "1) condition" seems quite hard to judge. From photo 2, the flue looks to extend perhaps 1.5 brick lengths from the wall, so about 300mm. Then it's not 300mm from the vents.

For the vertical distance to the window, from photo 2, running along the horizontal lines in the wall and roof tiles and counting bricks looks to give at least 6 brick heights between them, so around 400mm.

The gutters look to terminate about one brick height above the level of the vents, ~1.5 bricks above the top of the flue, so ~90mm, >75mm.

So the distance to the underside of the vents looks to be a problem.

Does that seem like a fair assessment?

The Gas Safe site says "In the first instance, you should contact the business concerned and ask them to correct the problem." So unless I have misjudged and someone explains that things actually look fine, I will raise this with them in the morning and ask if they can demonstrate that the "1) condition" is satisfied, or if not how they plan to correct it. And also give them a final chance to correct the condensate pipe.

 

[Peter Rabbit]

I contacted the installer and they have said they have contacted Vaillant to give a judgement. I will see what they say.

They won't do anything more about the condensate pipe. Would Gas Safe also give a judgement or compel an installer to act on that? I guess it is a safety issue to some extent if the pipe is liable to freeze and the boiler couldn't operate?

 

[gas112]

I contacted the installer and they have said they have contacted Vaillant to give a judgement. I will see what they say.

They won't do anything more about the condensate pipe. Would Gas Safe also give a judgement or compel an installer to act on that? I guess it is a safety issue to some extent if the pipe is liable to freeze and the boiler couldn't operate?

you have now contacted him several times and they are lying to you the condense needs lagged not just outside but actually through the wall . So tell him you are contacting gas safe for them do do the free inspection or dont give him the heads up and just do it . He will be made to alter anything they find at his expense or strike him off if he refuses.
The lagging for it is not standard lagging off the shelf at a quid a length its water proof stuff

 

[Peter Rabbit]

I have time to say a bit more now about how things panned out today, now I've processed things a bit - to be honest I'm quite incensed with the guy. Not just because he's awful to have to talk to, but he seems dangerously incompetent for this job.

When I told him today about the potential issue of the flue being too short (the "1) condition" above), he kept going on about the 25mm clearance between the flue and eaves. At first I thought he was just being too lazy to go out and measure the flue by obfuscating things. But he then said he talked to a "Vaillant Regional Rep" that he seems to get his info from, and forwarded me a diagram sent by the rep that describes clearances, but which doesn't have the "1) condition". And on the phone he was like "Ha! See I proved you wrong!". And then I followed up by asking the rep why is there a discrepancy with the boiler manual, and the rep says well it looks like there's an extra condition there that should be followed. And by this point the installer's changed - suddenly he's down at the property, taking measurements. But it's clear he didn't know about the condition, and seemingly thought there's no need to check the manual I'd referred him to at the beginning - he is very arrogant and seems to believe that he knows everything (keeps talking about how he's the "expert" etc.).

The good news is he measured the flue and the distance between the vents and tip looks to be somewhere around 300mm - see photo (though I think it's hard to tell if it's actually at least 300mm, and whether he's cheating at all by holding the measuring tape diagonally). So to me it makes it seem unlikely that it will imminently kill anyone. (Or maybe I'm wrong to think that?) But if so it seems like that's by luck. And then he emails saying essentially "so everything's fine now so can you pay me?" !!!

I'm drafting a submission to Gas Safe. Describing the particular (potential) violations of manufacturer's instructions is fine, but I feel like there should be a way to raise the fact that the guy doesn't know some information that seems really important. I don't think he should be working in this field if he's not interested in keeping up with these safety requirements. But the Gas Safe process doesn't seem interested in individual competence. Any ideas for how to put things in that might result in him getting a kick into shape are welcome. Also, my letting agent uses him a lot (they recommended him to me!) - I'm thinking to try to pull things together to show them how bad he is and see if they'll reconsider using him.

 

[CountryFan]

I think that is fine, but it’s all we (you included) we’re asking for. I would contact gas safe, especially if he denies the lagging/insulation on the condensate pipe.

 

[endecotp]

he seems dangerously incompetent for this job.

He’s absolutely normal for this job.

There are only about six competent tradesmen in the UK, and they all post on this forum.

That’s why we “Do It Ourselves”.

 

[CountryFan]

He’s absolutely normal for this job.

There are only about six competent tradesmen in the UK, and they all post on this forum.

That’s why we “Do It Ourselves”.

A bit harsh, there’s definitely more on here! You just often don’t see them as they hang out in the CC

 

[Peter Rabbit]

He’s absolutely normal for this job.

Is getting a boiler replaced normally this aggravating?! Or people just end up with installers not doing various things properly in a similar way to this guy and being blissfully ignorant? I suppose if all the external parts had been done on the same day as the boiler swap in my case, then I'd probably not have thought to post anything about it and not have known that there were any issues.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Is getting a boiler replaced normally this aggravating?!

Was this a national company, just doing boiler swaps, or a local installer? The first seem to be more problematical.

 

[CountryFan]

Is getting a boiler replaced normally this aggravating?! Or people just end up with installers not doing various things properly in a similar way to this guy and being blissfully ignorant?

Not normally, sounds like you just fell unlucky, despite what @endecotp says there are decent trades still knocking about. I’m not excusing the installer, but sometimes the customer can be asking “do I really need this?”