How to avoid a bad plumber

[dilalio]

I suppose us tradesmen on here have to accept that this forum is a place where disgruntled customers, who've had a bad experience, can (and do) come to have a bitch and a moan at 20-30 of us, rather than the one they're really upset with!

It must provide them with a sort of therapy, that makes them feel better.

Of course, we also have the right to respond accordingly

 

[DP]

I'd suggest this as a pinned thread

1. The plumber asks you what you think the problem is. WARNING SIGN. I have several examples from personal experience, so I will give just one. Boiler not working, plumber turns up, has a rummage round and then asks you what you think the problem is. Maybe you did some research on your boiler and found the fan failed often on your boiler type, so you suggest 'maybe its the fan'. The plumber will suggest changing the fan. Your contract is now (in his eyes) for him to change the fan. He changes the fan, boiler still doesn't work. Big arguments ensue. You just asked him to fix the boiler. This is absolutely typical of plumbers no matter what the task.

2. They turn up and don't do a full site survey. Make sure they put in writing what you are paying for in as much detail as necessary. Don't rely on verbal communication. Most plumbers will reject the job if you insist on anything written. So you are stuck. I haven't found any answer to this apart from doing it yourself.

1. I would never ask a client what the problem is. I would ask what the symptoms are.
2. If a client asks for written quote for a repair, jog on. I would be moving onto next client. Full site survey? Are you kidding? You going to pay for that? I do tell the client beforehand what my charges are though.

 

[ljrgas]

Wish there was a thread on how to avoid bad customers

 

[bernardgreen]

I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make as your two previous posts have no discernable logic to them

That not all GasSafe Registered plumbers with Domestic Boilers dated are capable of using logical thought processes to diagnose the fault on a boiler. They maybe able to fit boilers to walls and then pipe in the gas , water and flue connections as per manufacturer's instructions supplied with the boiler.

"deemed competent" to work on Gas Boilers. In reality that competence is related to the safe installation and servicing of the boiler as per the manufacturer's instructions and various other safety related regulations. It means the holder can detect unsafe operation of a boiler and in such a case encourage the owner not to use it. It does NOT mean the holder is qualified in diagnosing the reason a boiler is unsafe or failing to work other than that which is given in the installation instructions

Too many members of the general public seem to believe that the "Gas Boiler competency" includes the ability to diagnose and repair faults on all and any gas boiler. Some plumbers encourage this error in the public's understanding of what is included in "Gas Boiler competency" on the GasSafe card.

The fault is in the system. The term "Gas Boiler" covers far too much in just two words.

 

[FiremanT]

No tradesman would ask the punter what he thinks the problem is.
Many punters insist on telling us.

Survey / written quote? Do you mean for a breakdown? Are you nuts, or on drugs?

 

[Newboy]

The fault is in the system.

Most 'systems' have faults.

Because somebody claims expertise in IT systems doesn't mean they can rectify all faults (unless that involves turning them off and then on again!)

A mechanic may or may not be good at repairing all vehicles

An electrician may or may not be able to install network controlled installations

As systems become more complex the scope for difficulty in diagnosing problems increases

Like all trades, there are good and bad

 

[bernardgreen]

A mechanic may or may not be good at repairing all vehicles

Some boiler engineers and technicians do have the skills to enable them to be sucessful in repairing many different makes and models of boilers. The system of Gas Safe doesn't identify them as being any different from those deemed competent only to install and safety check boilers. That is where the the system is failing the public

Most members of the public would not ( for example ) take a Toyota to a Renault dealer for a service. They may take it to a general repair workshop that is not affiliated to a particular make. But they are ( or should be ) fully aware that it is a general wprkshop and the staff may lack the full knowledge and support that a main dealer workshop has access to.

Today car engines like boilers are more complex and technology varies from make to make far more than it did in the past. In days gone by a good technician / engineer could work on almost any make of car engine as they were then all just variations of the same basic principles of the internal combustion engine.

The manufacturer's name and logo over the door indicates which is the best vehicle workshop to choose when looking for service. Adding information about which manufacturer's deem the person competent to work as a fault finder on their equipment would help the public choose the right person.

 

[DP]

Bernard, that is why we have manufacturers technical helpdesk available to us, who themselves fail to understand their own appliance sometimes.

Was replacing a couple of rads a while ago. Asked the client to switch the power off to the boiler to allow work to proceed. Work completed, mains switched on, but boiler now not powering up. New pcb fitted as instructed by makers. Still would not work. Makers help desk wanted further parts changed.

The issue was resolved but replacement of parts was totally no required. Just because an expert is available on the makers help desk number, does not mean he/ she knows what is going on or have understating of appliance function or sequence if operation

You are correct when you say a fitter may not know how a boiler worked, so in some cases a plumber will be the fish out of water

Just last week finished a boiler replacement. Knowing the existing system, issues with it, new boiler selected to give me least bother, therefore expect better service for the client too

 

[Newboy]

Some boiler engineers and technicians do have the skills to enable them to be sucessful in repairing many different makes and models of boilers. The system of Gas Safe doesn't identify them as being any different from those deemed competent only to install and safety check boilers. That is where the the system is failing the public

I think that you misunderstand the function of the GasSafe register

Today car engines like boilers are more complex and technology varies from make to make far more than it did in the past. In days gone by a good technician / engineer could work on almost any make of car engine as they were then all just variations of the same basic principles of the internal combustion engine.

Agreed to some extent, although some systems will now make diagnostics simpler (in theory!) with on-board fault diagnosis.

They may take it to a general repair workshop that is not affiliated to a particular make. But they are ( or should be ) fully aware that it is a general wprkshop and the staff may lack the full knowledge and support that a main dealer workshop has access to.

Agreed - that is exactly what a consumer does when they contact a 'plumber'

The manufacturer's name and logo over the door indicates which is the best vehicle workshop to choose when looking for service. Adding information about which manufacturer's deem the person competent to work as a fault finder on their equipment would help the public choose the right person.

You clearly have better experience with 'main dealers' than I do - in my experience they are over-priced and no better (and occasionally worse) than a good independent vehicle repairer

 

[gas112]

3 questions
1. What is it doing or not doing now .
2.How was it working before your perceived problem
3. how do you actually use it

 

[bernardgreen]

You clearly have better experience with 'main dealers' than I do

Some good and some terrible. Like the technician (?) who was looking for the short circuit in my car that was blowing a 30 fuse. He replaced it with another 30 amp it blew, one by one he changed each item on that circuit and each time tested with another 30 amp fuse. ( a 5 amp would have caused less harm to the cable loom ). The fault was a trapped wire which had survived for four years before the insulation finally gave up. There was visible heat damage to the loom due to the repeated 30 amp plus current.

 

[Newboy]

Some good and some terrible. Like the technician (?) who was looking for the short circuit in my car that was blowing a 30 fuse. He replaced it with another 30 amp it blew, one by one he changed each item on that circuit and each time tested with another 30 amp fuse. ( a 5 amp would have caused less harm to the cable loom ). The fault was a trapped wire which had survived for four years before the insulation finally gave up. There was visible heat damage to the loom due to the repeated 30 amp plus current.

Testing by replacing a fuse is clearly not a good approach but equally testing with a 5 amp fuse would have been pointless - if the fault had been rectified and the circuit energised with 5 amp fuse in place, the fuse would probably have blown with the correct load on the circuit.

 

[bernardgreen]

Every item on the circuit was either disconnected or switched OFF so there would have been no load to pop any fuse.

I got involved after waiting for well over an hour and when the manager admitted that the technician was out of his depth ( beyond the service fault finding flow diagram ) We then disconnected every connector on the affected circuit and resistance checked each section of the loom until we found the section with zero ohms to chassis. ( wire to the interior lamp trapped in the frame of the sunshine roof ).

The manufacturer's UK agents did refund the cost of the ( wasted ) labour and sent my suggestions on to the manufacturer. The local dealer did revise their procedures for finding short ciruits in looms. I sold the car soon after that.

 

[Newboy]

Every item on the circuit was either disconnected or switched OFF so there would have been no load to pop any fuse.

Well why did you suggest a 5 amp fuse as a means of testing then?!

 

[gasmanstu72]

Or they may have spoken with the boiler manufacturer's technical department and been given an accurate diagnosis.

the ones i've ever spoken to want your gas safe number before they'll speak to you