True, but even with more police they cannot be present all the time. CCTV cameras can!
London cyclists dropping like flies
- Thread starter sooey
- Start date
True, but even with more police they cannot be present all the time. CCTV cameras can!
I'd like to counter your points against this, but I'm not sure exactly what they are.
If you maintain that bearing some sort of identification number, either on the bike or the person, is impractical would you please explain why? Plates too big? They need be no bigger than panniers. Too expensive? Tell me how much you think they would cost. An infringement of your civil liberties or human rights? If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
Yes, please state your precise objection to bearing some form of easily seen identification and I shall attempt to counter your arguments.
(I don't know what, but something has just reminded me that Joe has been absent for several days now. Has he given up?)
pmsl @ the 19 pages of vitriol on show here...
All it goes to show is that an old adage is not only alive and well, but thriving...
"Divide et impera"
And you bunch of numpties just go to show that there really is 'none so stupid as folk'...
All it goes to show is that an old adage is not only alive and well, but thriving...
"Divide et impera"
And you bunch of numpties just go to show that there really is 'none so stupid as folk'...
You mean after I re-quoted them for you, not had your coffee yet?
So there you go, right above, it would mean random stop and checks for it to be enforceable (otherwise I could slap any number plate on my bike, that has no address tied to it, or just copy someone elses (as approx 18 thousand car drivers currently do in the UK).
Clearly you think nothing of the civil liberties issues (no one who cares about civil liberties ever says "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear").
So then you have the monetry issue, to police it would cost many millions of pounds, so that's either a cost to everyone, or a cost to cyclists, and for what?
You think cyclists, who in a car accident will always come of worse, will stop getting into accidents because they have a number plate?
Ok.
No it wouldn't. If the police witnessed you doing anything you shouldn't (like going through a red light or even riding on the pavement - both common occurrences) they could pull you over. Would you take the risk of running a red light then, especially if you were carrying a false number plate?
It depends what you mean by civil liberties. Ignoring the law is not an option under civil liberties. My car has a number plate. I do not consider my civil liberties to have been infringed by this.
Could you explain your figure: 'many millions of pounds'? I think you exaggerate.
I'm sure there are many instances where cyclists have caused accidents and not been injured or even affected in any way, and who have then happily cycled off into the sunset.
OK?
pmsl @ the 19 pages of vitriol on show here...
All it goes to show is that an old adage is not only alive and well, but thriving...
"Divide et impera"
And you bunch of numpties just go to show that there really is 'none so stupid as folk'...
This is a discussion forum, isn't it? It was the last time I looked, anyway. That means that people come here to discuss matters.
If any particular discussion is not of interest to me, I just move on to the next.
Try it!
My case just proven by someone who is indeed 'stupid as folk'...pmsl @ the 19 pages of vitriol on show here...
All it goes to show is that an old adage is not only alive and well, but thriving...
"Divide et impera"
And you bunch of numpties just go to show that there really is 'none so stupid as folk'...
This is a discussion forum, isn't it? It was the last time I looked, anyway. That means that people come here to discuss matters.
If any particular discussion is not of interest to me, I just move on to the next.
Try it!
Well, yes. That would be the point of the false number plate.
So the only way you can come to this conclusion is to completely avoid discussing the implications I describe, that to enforce it, the police would have to do random stock and checks, ask for ID, and fine/confiscate if ID is not provided.
Otherwise what stops me slapping on any old number plate, bikes are not registered with the DVLA like cars, (even if you register new ones, that only leaves about 10 million existing ones).
The ID card scheme was to cost 5 BILLION pounds.
And you think a few million pounds is an exaggeration, I’d say I vastly underestimated the costs, thanks for pointing out my error.
And I’m sure they will continue to do so.
I once saw a bloke hammering his girls head onto the dashboard, he wouldn’t get out of the car when I went up to him, and instead drove off (trying to run me over in the process).
I got his number plate, a description, witnesses, and gave these details to the police.
A week later PC plod came to my door asking about the event, they clearly hadn’t followed it up, and didn’t even have the number plate.
And you think if some cyclist stupidly scratches your car, the police will give a toss.
You didn't read my post. My point was that running a red light (along with riding on the pavement, riding without lights at night, etc) would give the police an excuse to stop you and ask for ID. They would then discover your false number plates and, hopefully, charge you accordingly.
As for the cost, can you tell me how many cyclists there are in this country (because I really don't know)? Even if registration would cost 'millions', if spread amongst all cyclists it may not be that much per person. I don't know, but I'd be interested to.
I can't even remember the last time I saw a police car at red lights. Besides the police already can arrest you if they see you doing those things, they don't.
You can keep skirting this issue, but you can't get around it, the only way for it to be enforceable is to randomly stop and ask for ID. Otherwise it's far to easy to slap on any number plate and you will never be caught..
So back to square one, the police having to randomly stop and ask for ID.
Do you find that acceptable or not?
Well no one knows, because they are not registered.
All that's known is about 2-3 million bikes are sold each year, and it's estimated 20 million or so are "in service"
'millions'
you seem doubtful, I can't see why.
The cost to send a letter to a house would reasonably be £1 (postage, stationary, time), even if you assume 50p instead, at least a third of houses have bikes, so that's 4 million pounds just to send a letter to bike owners, but this is the government £1.50 for a letter seems more realistic.
Applications would have to be checked, staff costs, offices, even before the cost of policing you'll easily rack up tens of millions in costs, all to be paid every year, Sweden dumped license plates for bikes precisely because it was expensive to run.
A driving license costs £50 for a reason, that pays for the DVLA administration (and they still get tax money).
So you either give em away free (there is your millions, and hundreds of millions over years), or you make people pay.
£50 pounds is a lot to someone on minimum or less, now what if they have 2 kids with bikes and themselves, that's £150 pounds.
That's not chump change, and all for what?[/b]
Says the person who equates poor people with criminals
Did anyone ever reply to my earlier point regarding the natural extension of the cycle plates/tax 'logic'? (other than to call me silly)
If you treat cycles as a vehicle that need to be registered, plated and taxed,
Then therefore that logic must extend to all non-motorised vehicle that will at some point come into contact with the roads.
Wheelchairs?
Unicycles?
Mobility scooters?
Skateboards?
Horses?
Small children riding big dogs?
If I give a child a shoulder ride does that count?
Etc etc.
If you're all for identifying potential lawbreakers then it also stands to reason that pedestrians should need adequate numberplates.
To use someone's earlier argument, a bicycle can cause a car to crash into a bus stop, therefore they should have numberplates. So can pedestrians.
Unfortunately the waterways already have this with even canoes/kayaks being classed as boats and requiring licensing, registration and insurance?
But;
Does anyone? No. No they don't.
Is it enforced? No. No it isn't.
Why? Because everyone knows it's rediculous and completely unnecessary.
If you treat cycles as a vehicle that need to be registered, plated and taxed,
Then therefore that logic must extend to all non-motorised vehicle that will at some point come into contact with the roads.
Wheelchairs?
Unicycles?
Mobility scooters?
Skateboards?
Horses?
Small children riding big dogs?
If I give a child a shoulder ride does that count?
Etc etc.
If you're all for identifying potential lawbreakers then it also stands to reason that pedestrians should need adequate numberplates.
To use someone's earlier argument, a bicycle can cause a car to crash into a bus stop, therefore they should have numberplates. So can pedestrians.
Unfortunately the waterways already have this with even canoes/kayaks being classed as boats and requiring licensing, registration and insurance?
But;
Does anyone? No. No they don't.
Is it enforced? No. No it isn't.
Why? Because everyone knows it's rediculous and completely unnecessary.
