Not entirely true, the supportive care still makes life or death difference for many. Just not everyone.
Space for you
- Thread starter bernardgreen
- Start date
Sponsored Links
Figures I saw (and posted on here) were c. 70% mortality rate, even when the medics had done what they can for you.
Probably because the suggestion is batshit crazy.
It's like thinking that you'd be immune to Ebola because your cousin thrice removed ate a monkey once.
This virus is less than six months old. In month one, the medics were getting ready for viral pneumonias. Then came the multiple organ failures, the Kawasaki - like diseases in kids, etc. Totally baffling for the doctors trying to treat it. Foolish to discount anything yet.
If you say so.
Sponsored Links
Yeah, let's all start buying crystals and praying the virus away. Some things are too stupid to give credence.
Also it isn't backed up by the results in Korea. As a side effect of their efforts to do contact tracing you get information like this: https://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-SOUTHKOREA-CLUSTERS/0100B5G33SB/index.html
There's no magic immunity at work here, just rigourous hard work. Bluntly the theory they're immune because of the bat content of their diet sounds like someone grasping for an excuse for why they managed things so much better than us.
Strawman. I (correctly, at time of writing) stated that you might as well "pray", as medical knowledge is not yet at the point where there is a defined and successful treatment pathway for an infected and gravely ill person.
At no point did I state or imply "praying" that the virus would go away.
Yeah. That milkmaids were immune to smallpox was too stupid to consider, until it was found to be so.
Like I said earlier, whether I "believe" it or not, I wouldn't be too hasty to rule anything out, just in case.
Edited for predictive text typos
Last edited:
yes I can see what you are saying -I think we are looking at opposite ends of the same thing
Whilst it is true life cannot return to normal until a vaccine or treatment is found, there is a huge gap between total lockdown and total herd immunity.......
and in that gap exists a system of keeping infection rate low with social distancing, test, trace, isolate, quarantine whilst getting the economy back working.
For what it is worth
A Chinese TV interview with a virologist at the Wuhan Laboratory
Open this LINK and click on the image of the laboratory to start the video.
It is said this scientist Shi Zhengli disappeared for a few weeks. I wonder if she is now speaking freely or reading from an official "statement"
A Chinese TV interview with a virologist at the Wuhan Laboratory
Open this LINK and click on the image of the laboratory to start the video.
It is said this scientist Shi Zhengli disappeared for a few weeks. I wonder if she is now speaking freely or reading from an official "statement"
What annoys me is that the vast majority of deaths that have occurred, (and let's be honest, a lot of them would have occurred anyway because of age, disease etc), are being marked down as dying from Covid-19. This is false information! Covid-19 may have played a part in their death by complicating/compromising a condition they already had, and of which they would probably have died from anyway, but to say Covid killed them is wrong.
It's like someone who had very severe COPD died of heart failure because their heart couldn't cope with the stress. It was the failing of the lungs that precipitated their death in the first place and is the primary cause of their ultimate demise, not heart failure. People who had terminal cancer have died a few weeks or months earlier than they were expected to and it has been put down to Covid. Predicting a cancer patients longevity is not an exact science, it's guesswork at the best of times, so why mark it down as dying from Covid-19? Maybe because it adds weight to someone's predictions, I don't know.
I believe death certificates should state the true cause of death with an additional comment such as, "Complicated/compromised by evidence of Covid-19 viral infection."
This may give a truer figure of who actually does die from the Covid virus without other underlying conditions.
It's like someone who had very severe COPD died of heart failure because their heart couldn't cope with the stress. It was the failing of the lungs that precipitated their death in the first place and is the primary cause of their ultimate demise, not heart failure. People who had terminal cancer have died a few weeks or months earlier than they were expected to and it has been put down to Covid. Predicting a cancer patients longevity is not an exact science, it's guesswork at the best of times, so why mark it down as dying from Covid-19? Maybe because it adds weight to someone's predictions, I don't know.
I believe death certificates should state the true cause of death with an additional comment such as, "Complicated/compromised by evidence of Covid-19 viral infection."
This may give a truer figure of who actually does die from the Covid virus without other underlying conditions.
Have you heard the term "excess deaths?"
Do you know what it means?
All deaths will occur anyway.
This does not mean, for example, that Dominic Cummings is entitled to murder you today, on the grounds that, sooner or later, you were going to die.
- Joined
- 31 May 2016
- Messages
- 14,440
- Reaction score
- 2,139
- Country
That doesn't excuse a one size fits all policy. Some people are at substantially les risk than others. The risk of a 30yo dying from Covid is 0.05%
I'd seen around 1/3 mortality of those admitted to hospital. But the relevant bit is: what happens if you don't admit those people so they get no medical care.
If the medical support is the equivalent of putting a bandage on a wound then that may be enough to save some lives. Even if it's not enough to save all the lives.
So, to take your statistic of 70% (which I think is wrong, I'd seen 1/3 mortality in those serious enough to go to hospital) then without medical care would it still be 70, or 80 or 90%?
I'm not saying that quite a number of deaths are not expected anyway. I am simply saying that even deaths which were/are expected are being NOTIFIED as deaths from Covid instead of being stated as 'complicated by'. If you subtract the number of deaths that were/are expected for this time of year from the total deaths, you will probably find a much smaller number are as a direct result of contracting Covid.
As for the remark about Dominic Cummings, that is totally unnecessary, quite superfluous to this topic of conversation and I can't see why you feel the need to drag a separate issue in to this.
You are entitled to comment on what I have posted, and if you or anyone else have valid comments to make then I respect those rights, but to reply with remarks such as;
"Have you heard the term "excess deaths?"
Do you know what it means?"
Followed by;
"All deaths will occur anyway."
could be viewed as an aggressive stance by some people. Why do most of your posts appear to take an aggressive attitude to others, especially when they don't agree with what you have posted?
I am quite 'thick skinned' when it comes to aggressive reactions, insults etc, (coming from Liverpool you need to be), so I have a tendency to dismiss a lot of the things said on GD as sometimes a 'heat of a moment' reaction, but clearly your reply isn't a heat of the moment reaction. I consider it to be a poke at me personally because I don't go with the flow of everyone else's thoughts. Well get used to it or put me on ignore. You've ruffled my feathers but I will not be intimidated by you or anyone else when it comes to expressing my thoughts on a subject.
Followed by;
"All deaths will occur anyway."
could be viewed as an aggressive stance by some people. Why do most of your posts appear to take an aggressive attitude to others, especially when they don't agree with what you have posted?
I am quite 'thick skinned' when it comes to aggressive reactions, insults etc, (coming from Liverpool you need to be), so I have a tendency to dismiss a lot of the things said on GD as sometimes a 'heat of a moment' reaction, but clearly your reply isn't a heat of the moment reaction. I consider it to be a poke at me personally because I don't go with the flow of everyone else's thoughts. Well get used to it or put me on ignore. You've ruffled my feathers but I will not be intimidated by you or anyone else when it comes to expressing my thoughts on a subject.
Aggressive stance?
Yes.
and very likely to "ruffle feathers."
Especially when twenty or thirty thousand die early without being diagnosed because they were old or sick or in care homes and not prioritised for (worthy of) treatment or care. In order to lessen the load on the NHS so it was not overwhelmed. Due to rationing demand.
These people don't even appear on your statistics that you complain are too high.
Do you live in an area where the crematoria have been working flat out and unable to cope with the number of customers? Where undertakers' phones have been constantly engaged? I do.
Yes.
and very likely to "ruffle feathers."
Especially when twenty or thirty thousand die early without being diagnosed because they were old or sick or in care homes and not prioritised for (worthy of) treatment or care. In order to lessen the load on the NHS so it was not overwhelmed. Due to rationing demand.
These people don't even appear on your statistics that you complain are too high.
Do you live in an area where the crematoria have been working flat out and unable to cope with the number of customers? Where undertakers' phones have been constantly engaged? I do.
Sponsored Links
