timing belt, what would you do?

[Avocet]

This might not help, but I've been told that the worst load on a cam belt is when the vehicle starts up. It goes from craning at a few hundred RPM, at most, to 1000 RPM in a fraction of a second as the engine fires. That's the biggest acceleration the valvetrain sees in normal use. (The second-worst case, being when it happens the other way round and you stall). People tend to think of high wear and tear being when the engine is driven hard or at high revs. For some parts of the engine, that's true, of course, but not cam belts. So it might be worth you thinking not so much about number of miles per year that it's going to do, as number of startups.

That said, you used genuine parts and as other have said, some VW engines have very long cam belt service intervals. Maybe worth asking on a model-specific forum and getting a few opinions there?

 

[Avocet]

And Mr Mayor Khant has just announced that he will expand the ulez next year, impoverishing more and more people already struggling.
I have to scrap 2 perfect older cars which have emissions well below the f#cking euro 6 standard but are too old for Mr Khant.
In the meantime the mother f#cker is chauffeured around in a 5 litre armoured vehicle.
What a f#cking hypocrite!
I hope...
Well, you know what i hope.

How old are the cars and how do you know their emissions are below the Euro 6 levels?

 

[johnny2007]

How old are the cars and how do you know their emissions are below the Euro 6 levels?

I have the printout from mot.
I called the dvla and asked if I could get my cars registered as euro 6 because of the low emissions.
They said they're aware of this "problem" but it would be impossible to update the database for every car in uk, so they stick by the manufacturer rating.
So, as euro 6 didn't exist 12 years ago, we have to scrap cars that are below euro 6 standard and perfectly functioning.
In other words, a scam.

 

[Avocet]

I have the printout from mot.
I called the dvla and asked if I could get my cars registered as euro 6 because of the low emissions.
They said they're aware of this "problem" but it would be impossible to update the database for every car in uk, so they stick by the manufacturer rating.
So, as euro 6 didn't exist 12 years ago, we have to scrap cars that are below euro 6 standard and perfectly functioning.
In other words, a scam.

I'm afraid DVLA are being misleading. (In fact, that's putting it politely)! If yours is a 2008 car, it will almost certainly be a "Euro 4" car. VW will tell you exactly what it was built to, if you phone them with your VIN. I'm guessing it won't even have a DPF? (They came in at "Euro 5"). Its emissions will be nowhere near "Euro 6". This is quite a handy guide to the different "Euro" emissions requirements:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-emissions-standards/

A lot of the confusion arises because the MOT requirements are different to the type approval requirements. The type approval requirements (Euro 1, 2, 3, etc) are pretty tough and manufacturers struggle to meet them, even with a car that's new. A full "Euro 6" emissions test will cost about £10k to carry out. The limits are WAY tighter than MOT limits and they also check for far more pollutants.

Given the cost of a full type approval emissions test, and the fact that a 5 year old car would struggle to meet it, never mind a 14 year old one, the MOT test has to be much simpler and cheaper. Therefore, it only checks for two pollutants - carbon monoxide, CO) and unburned hydrocarbons (HC), plus "smoke". The type approval "Euro" test will check for these plus, oxides of nitrogen and particulates. It could be argued that the MOT test checks particulates, because that's what "smoke" is, but it's the amount that the equipment can pick up that's the difference. If the type approval test is like something that can detect a grain of sand in a bin bag, the MOT test, is struggling to detect a house brick in a bin bag. Also, of course, the MOT test can't check the emissions with the engine under load. The type approval test is done on a rolling road and (thanks to VW!), later versions of Euro 6 are also cross-checked on a real road).

It would cost more than the car was worth to bring it up to Euro 6 requirements. Our big cities have a bad air quality problem, hence the need to try and get the older, more polluting vehicles off the road. Yes, there's a balance to be struck between the environmental damage to destroying a perfectly serviceable vehicle and replacing it with a newer, cleaner one, but in reality, the vehicle won't be destroyed, it will be sold and probably go to work in a rural area where the air quality isn't such a problem because there isn't the traffic density.

 

[securespark]

We got a Mitsu Space Star from myums neighbour. The later service record was atrocious because she never intended to keep it, so just did the bare minimum- oil change and cheap ditchfinder tyres.

When we got it, it must have thought all its birthdays had come at once. Proper service with synthetic oil, new cambelt, water pump, battery, brakes, tyres, plugs, a good injector clean out, headlight polish and good scrub up.

The Honda diesel has a chain and while I know they can stretch, we are leaving it for now. I don't even know the interval. We had a new clutch at 156K and now done 165K. The vibrating driveshaft, a small oil leak and something else I forget are items the guy mentioned that need doing as we can afford it.

The guy who services it is ex-Honda main dealer and said before we did the clutch that maybe we should consider getting rid right now before anything else expensive comes along. But we couldn't afford to swap so we will plod on.

But I have faith it will continue to be reliable far beyond 200K.

We'll see!

 

[Mottie]

the MOT test, is struggling to detect a house brick in a bin bag.

Yes. Even on a Euro 5 diesel, the smoke meter cannot get a reading and keeps telling you to rev the engine. You have to make and keep a record for 3 months that the emissions were too low for the meter to get a reading.

 

[BlueLoo]

Run the car into the ground.
The current timing belt will outlast it.

You are worrying too much.

 

[Mottie]

Run the car into the ground.
The current timing belt will outlast it.

You are worrying too much.

Yeah, I've put two belts on our Diesel Golf. I won't be fitting another - either the car will go (if that Khant expands the ULEZ) or I'll run it until is goes bang!

 

[Tigercubrider]

A vw/ seat forum may tell you how hard it is to replace.
I have a feeling my Volvo/ Mitsubishi engine’s belt was supposed to be about 7~10 years?
A mate’s Saab needed the engine removed to work on the handbrake.

some timing belts can be changed at home easily

 

[cdbe]

I have the kits for mine (2010 Touran 1.9 at 93K and 2007 Golf 1.9 at 86K). I'm waiting for better weather before I have a go. I've done one before (2.0Hdi) which seemed to go ok and there are plenty of online guides. The interval for both is (or was when the book was printed) 10 years or 100K. I'm going to practice on the Golf as it's older and the Touran has some kind of diesel heater that I believe has to be removed as well.

I have to say, the internet is a dangerous thing sometimes, especially the specialised car forums - apparently one of the pulley studs is well known for being weak on these VW engines, and the BXE engine (which I have in both, is almost guaranteed to suffer premature conrod bearing failure) - obviously apart from the taxis that have done 300k! I don't look at them any more.

 

[mattylad]

Fwiw I have had 2 cam belts go on the same car.
First time it took out all the valves, 2nd time it was because a ring broke in the engine and took out the belt.
That's when I scrapped the car.

Since then I always replace the belt when I get a new to me car, it's always cheaper than the effects of belt failure (unless you get one of those non feck up engines).

 

[Mottie]

This might not help, but I've been told that the worst load on a cam belt is when the vehicle starts up. It goes from craning at a few hundred RPM, at most, to 1000 RPM in a fraction of a second as the engine fires. That's the biggest acceleration the valvetrain sees in normal use. (The second-worst case, being when it happens the other way round and you stall). People tend to think of high wear and tear being when the engine is driven hard or at high revs. For some parts of the engine, that's true, of course, but not cam belts. So it might be worth you thinking not so much about number of miles per year that it's going to do, as number of startups.

That's a good point. Start/stop systems will put much more pressure on the belt too with the engine starting much more frequently than a non start/stop equipped vehicle.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Run the car into the ground.
The current timing belt will outlast it.

You are worrying too much.

Yeah, I know it looks as though I'm contradicting myself (I keep the car serviced but not sure about doing timing belt) however it's because of the age it now is. Although I do keep it serviced, my rationale is run it and if the belt was to fail and cause £££ of damage, I'd then be forced to go out and buy another car.

I did ask on the Seat forum but only a few replies and most saying 'best do it.'

I think on balance I'll just run it as is.

Cheers

 

[Mottie]

All depends on how well you want to sleep at night.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

All depends on how well you want to sleep at night.

Yeah I get your point but think I'll sleep fine I don't mean this in a boasting way, if need be I have the funds to go out and buy another car. Coupled with that, my journeys are 99% local, infrequent and within a 10-15 mile radius of my home. So if the car gives up and is beyond economic repair, so be it. At 14 years old, I'm less and less inclined to get more expensive jobs done on it.