Are Covid deaths being under reported in the UK?

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The real worry is the current attitude from GPs. All the surgeries I know of (including my own) have told their population only to use the surgery if your condition is "very urgent" or "life threatening". As I've said since last year, the reaction to Covid is worse than Covid itself.

Local trusts are starting to see all the cancer referrals come through now from late diagnoses, and I can tell you from first hand experience (I work in histopathology) that I am seeing cases caught too late.
 
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Congratulations on finding that. I would imagine the likkle piktures helped you immensely in digesting the principles.

Now go & try to learn how the Cov-19 vaccines work. Try to discover just how they differ from any of the vaccines we have known so far. Try to learn & try to gauge our current level of knowledge of the effects they may have on your body, not just the short term but the long term as well.

If you find yourself becoming alarmed that our current level of knowledge of this novel technique is about 3-4 on the 100 scale, then please don't panic. You are, after all, legally protected if those who produced them & those who administered them got it wrong somewhere . . . .
 
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The real worry is the current attitude from GPs. All the surgeries I know of (including my own) have told their population only to use the surgery if your condition is "very urgent" or "life threatening". As I've said since last year, the reaction to Covid is worse than Covid itself.

I'm not having real issues with appointments. I am just back from having a double appointment this morning, I have a third tomorrow afternoon, then a fourth on the 31st. It is generally a case of ring and get an appointment for seven days after my call, but it has always been like that for the past decade.
 
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Congratulations on finding that. I would imagine the likkle piktures helped you immensely in digesting the principles.

I made a special point of seeking out likkle piktures for the hard of understanding, like you...

The principles of vaccines are very well known, as is the MO of the covid vaccine, it was just a bit of customisation to suit the covid.
 
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If you find yourself becoming alarmed that our current level of knowledge of this novel technique is about 3-4 on the 100 scale

mRNA discovered over 60 years ago. Novel technique my backside.
 
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I'm not having real issues with appointments. I am just back from having a double appointment this morning, I have a third tomorrow afternoon, then a fourth on the 31st. It is generally a case of ring and get an appointment for seven days after my call, but it has always been like that for the past decade.

Glad you are able to and of course the experience varies nationally. Unfortunately we all received texts reading "current service is limited to urgent or potentially serious clinical need". This guidance has been sent out to trusts which border my own. Prior to Covid, the surgeries I use (Moir Group) were coping just fine by allowing us to phone in the morning for an afternoon appointment or the afternoon for an appointment the following morning. Now they sit near-empty "because of the pandemic".

I had crippling abdominal pains last year and phoned for an appointment. It took two GPs having a discussion between themselves to conclude that it might be gastroenteritis and they were really hesitant about me coming into the surgery. In the end I suffered with it a few days and it went away. You can't diagnose anything like that over the phone and I remember them saying "it's really hard to determine anything over the phone". I'm fairly young at 31 so it was unlikely to be cancer, but I feel for the poor souls who have had late diagnoses because they weren't seen.

I have respect for GPs and the work they do, but their seemingly-unchanging attitude to Covid has really taken a lot of that respect away. They seem to squirrel away in their offices now, delegating as much work as they can to the community nurses.
 
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I suspect the death figures are over-estimated. It's anecdotal but I've heard dozens of stories of people saying their parent died of x, y, z but the death was listed as with covid. These aren't people questioning the figures - these are just people mentioning it incidentally. On the radio the other day somebody from ONS was talking and said the figures were currently under review because the number of 'with covid' deaths where covid was not in any way a factor is becoming too high. He said he thought the figures would be adjusted at some point. The other thing I've heard from a statistician on the radio in the last month or so is that the 5 year average thing is a bit misleading because the year before that was a very bad flu year where more than 40,000 people died in the three winter months. This meant that the following few years were below average years, and we are now comparing the elevated covid years with what were particularly low years. It makes it look worse than it is.
 
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This meant that the following few years were below average years, and we are now comparing the elevated covid years with what were particul
I don't think you've recounted that correctly, as that's not how statistics work. Unless you're saying that the following years were below average as the year before killed off all the old and infirm, which still doesn't work as the variance in numbers isn't big enough.
 
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I suspect the death figures are over-estimated. It's anecdotal but I've heard dozens of stories of people saying their parent died of x, y, z but the death was listed as with covid. These aren't people questioning the figures - these are just people mentioning it incidentally. On the radio the other day somebody from ONS was talking and said the figures were currently under review because the number of 'with covid' deaths where covid was not in any way a factor is becoming too high. He said he thought the figures would be adjusted at some point. The other thing I've heard from a statistician on the radio in the last month or so is that the 5 year average thing is a bit misleading because the year before that was a very bad flu year where more than 40,000 people died in the three winter months. This meant that the following few years were below average years, and we are now comparing the elevated covid years with what were particularly low years. It makes it look worse than it is.
I wish I'd heard that ONS person, do you remember which channel it was?

The BBC statistician (Irish chap) was brought in as an expert yesterday. He described the recording on death certificates, where you can get a fair idea of OF versus WITH, and talked about the percentages. Then brought in the daily deaths quote, which we know is only a "+ve28 day" record, and implied the same percentages would hold. Of course they wouldn't!

The ONS say there are the different ways to count etc, here https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/tran...19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest so you think "great, I'll look it up" - but up to date figures just aren't there. Wait until Feb 22.
So BBC man has taken conclusions from one set of data and applied them to a different set. Moron!
It's all a bit annoying. One expects junk on these forums but so-called experts should know better.

Cases are high still but over the peak, OK. No real argument there.
Deaths are rising - as you'd expect, it can take a week or two delay for the disease to kill someone. OK.
HM Gov talks about reducing mask mandates soon. Debatable, could be argued either way, but logic is there. OK.
Some twát on the radio this morning says that the rising death numbers should mean we have to wear masks more now. UH?
No, that doesn't follow because - oh FFS never mind.
He can wear his mask forever. Carry on.
 
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Cases are high still but over the peak, OK. No real argument there.
It might be over the peak, but it's still about 100,000 cases a day. That's twice the mid-summer amount.

He can wear his mask forever. Carry on.
Due to the current number of cases being twice what it was mid-summer, my opinion is that this removing all restrictions is too hasty, and maybe more politically motivated than health motivated.
 
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Actually early on an ONS whistle blower mentioned incorrect causes of death being mentioned on death certificates that were bound to be covid related really. Mainly from GP's and care home related.

The other point as well is that some take longer to die than 28days so the 60 odd day ones will be higher. The difference has been slight.

He can wear his mask forever. Carry on.
;) Clearer messaging on no masks next Thursday now. People advised to still wear them in crowded areas. Interesting one. That could be to show people what happens if they don't but more likely to increase the number who will still use them in shops etc anyway. They will still be required on public transport in London. That may be down to the fact that huge numbers of people use it.
 
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BREAKING NEWS ***IT'S OVER*** 'Cos it never started in the beginning.

An FOI request with the actual Covid death figures from the ONS has been released & is slowly trickling its way across the internettys.

THIS ***OFFICIAL*** DOCUMENT CONTAINS MAJOR REVELATIONS ABOUT THE TRUE NUMBERS.

Some of you need to hurriedly amend your past posts . . . Like 2yrs worth.

Will the "BB bloody C" be discussing it indepth? Like hell they will.

Will heads roll in Parliament? Like hell they will.

Will we get our taxpayers money back? Like hell we will.

Will the Covidiots EVER admit they were wrong? Like hell they will.

IT ISN'T EVEN A BAD FLU.
 
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It might be over the peak, but it's still about 100,000 cases a day. That's twice the mid-summer amount.


Due to the current number of cases being twice what it was mid-summer, my opinion is that this removing all restrictions is too hasty, and maybe more politically motivated than health motivated.

Sigh
It's not the same disease.
Sigh

This is typical trolling forum behaviour.
Find a statistic, ignore whatever facts you like, even if they're more important, so you can add to your stream of poo.
Again.
 
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