Brexit isn’t done but voters think immigration is sorted

[JP_]

China? They’re not flooded with immigrants are they?

Depends how you define immigrant. They don't need external immigration, but it is vast and industry is in hubs, so a lot of immigration between regions takes place. China has over 150 million official internal migrants.

So you can't use China as a case against immigration.

 

[Notch7]

China? They’re not flooded with immigrants are they?

When you have a population of 1.4 billion a shortage of workers isnt really an issue.

 

[JP_]

Just a sec what?

I think you'll find alot of business like to pay immigrant wages not skills. Simple economics. That's the demand. I've seen it first hand in my industries across banking pharmaceutical insurance and few others. Most of it is abroad now instead. Cheap immigrant labour is also a big money saver obviously. Where is the benefit to uk people here?

Sorry, don't follow you. Businesses need labour. Traditionally, that labour has had to come from overseas - this has been the case for hundreds of years. How is stopping immigration going to help?

The government have already said they won't stop immigration anyway, with plans to make it easier for people to get visas for NHS and agricultural. When other parts of industry need it, the government will allow it.

 

[festive]

Sorry, don't follow you. Businesses need labour. Traditionally, that labour has had to come from overseas - this has been the case for hundreds of years. How is stopping immigration going to help?

The government have already said they won't stop immigration anyway, with plans to make it easier for people to get visas for NHS and agricultural. When other parts of industry need it, the government will allow it.

We have labour here i don't believe there's a shortage? The shortage is, what business are willing to pay in order to keep their profit margins. I see it day in day out there's very little business loyalty to local economies/people, they care not if 20 people are squeezed in a house here getting paid for a lowly labour job which in turn goes back home. Happens both ways alot of skill is lost here because business are not willing to pay and those for example structural engineers head overseas to find the money.

 

[Munroast]

Nonsense. Name one economically successful country that has banned immigration?

Name one economically successful country that isn't destroying the environment. Increasing the amount of crap we sell each other ('the economy') by simply increasing the amount of people is about as stupid and short term thinking as it gets. It may be working for next week but at some point, whether that be when we hit 70 million or a 100 million, it is going to go spectacularly wrong. You could improve your own household economics by inviting another family to live with you, soon pay the bills that way - but would that improve the quality of your life?

Our country is stupidly over crowded, we can't even feed ourselves now, and the future looks more than a bit worrying, less than 50 harvests left in our soil, more people is the very last thing we need.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...eradication-soil-fertility-warns-michael-gove

The truth is shocking, if we 'the UK' wanted to live in a sustainable manner, then it is estimated our country could only support 20 million souls with our present lifestyles.
https://www.footprintnetwork.org/
We could definitely improve that figure but we are never going to get anywhere near our current 66 million. And we definitely don't need another quarter of a million more flooding over our borders.

 

[durhamplumber]

If the moderators are true to their word, posters 1 & 2 will be banned by the morning.

Good point....Very...but will never happen..Gal stirs up more racial hatred ideas than anyone else on here..JohnD his lacky...There tiny minds cannot think beyond it.

 

[Notch7]

Our country is stupidly over crowded

population density is not that high.

 

[Notch7]

we can't even feed ourselves now

I am unsure how that relates to the immigration question.

without immigrants we cant pick what we grow now

 

[Munroast]

population density is not that high.

we're about 3x over sustainable levels

and if you remove principalities or so called countries smaller than lets say 30 miles square. England at 1086 per sq mile is the 6th most densely populated
(only Bangladesh, Lebanon, South Korea, Rwanda, Netherlands) are more tightly packed in.

I am unsure how that relates to the immigration question.

without immigrants we cant pick what we grow now

We need to develop better methods

Immigration to solve short term problems is not sustainable in the long term. Bring in families to pick the food and at some point they will retire and need fed, which needs we will need more migration. Think of an overcrowed boat so low in the water that it is needing bailed out, bringing on more people to help bail is a poor idea.

 

[JP_]

Immigration to solve short term problems is not sustainable in the long term.

Farms have needed immigrant workers for centuries, it really is not a new problem. Mnay of the immigrants came from areas where there was little work in the past, but more opportunities locally now. And of course, farmers can no longer send their kids out to bring in the harvest (why do we still have 6 week summer holidays?!?) so need people from somewhere.

Worth reading - http://theconversation.com/who-picked-british-fruit-and-veg-before-migrant-workers-63279

And if Brexit causes food issues we are going to need to grow more of our own, and unless we can suddenly persuade Brits to work 12 hour days on minimum wage, immigrants are needed.

In an ideal world we'd all pay 3 times more for food and pay Brits a good living wage, and farmers can do two shifts a day so nobody is working too long, and farmers can pay into workers' pension schemes too. But I cannot see that happening anytime soon - massive food price increases will be viewed as a government failure, not a way to reduce immigration.

 

[Notch7]

we're about 3x over sustainable levels

being self sufficient is a very different discussion to discussing immigration for economic reasons

if you want the UK to be self sufficient then there would need to be a massive culture shift on what we buy and eat.

Take one example: lamb
The UK imports slightly more lamb than it exports
we export to the EU and import from NZ

why? because of consumer demand, both the the cuts of meat and seasonality

immigration is a small part of the equation

 

[JP_]

It is mad, buying meat from NZ, South America etc. Completely insane.

 

[festive]

He was locked up. You expect all prisoners be locked up indefinitely?

No that's fine lets arrange for the next Islamic extremist released early from prison to move in down your road where perhaps you can chip in and help de-radicalise him. I'm sure it won't take long and be successful.

Honestly... i don't know what to say.

 

[Mottie]

China has over 150 million official internal migrants.

What, like a Scotsman, Welshman or Irishman 'migrating' to England? That’s not what I mean about migrants and you know it.

 

[Mottie]

It is mad, buying meat from NZ, South America etc. Completely insane.

Funnily enough, I was talking to a Farmer on Saturday and he said how it was stupid that you could go and buy a leg of frozen NZ lamb for next to nothing but if you buy British, you need to take out a second mortgage.