Brexit isn’t done but voters think immigration is sorted

[JP_]

What, like a Scotsman, Welshman or Irishman 'migrating' to England? That’s not what I mean about migrants and you know it.

tbh I am not really sure what you meant. It sounded like you suggested that as China doesn't need immigration to grow its economy, we don't either. But as I already said, we've needed immigration for a very long time. And not just the Scots, Welsh and Irish. I vaguely recall studying about European migrants from mainland Europe coming over to the East Anglia to help on the fields. The travelling gypsies would often work as farm labourers when needed. They've been around a long time.

 

[Munroast]

being self sufficient is a very different discussion to discussing immigration for economic reasons

if you want the UK to be self sufficient then there would need to be a massive culture shift on what we buy and eat.

Take one example: lamb
The UK imports slightly more lamb than it exports
we export to the EU and import from NZ

why? because of consumer demand, both the the cuts of meat and seasonality

immigration is a small part of the equation

but this thread is about immigration.

the arguments for immigration seems to dwell around that we need it for our economy, I understand that argument but it will destroy our economy, we can't just keep filling up our country with more and more people, it is a recipe for disaster. We clearly can't look after ourselves and more people joining our way of life will never solve that, it will just require yet more people.

May be we need to bring in workers from other countries but they need to go back when the work is done. We can't afford them 30 or 40 years of retirement along with social and health care, to do that will require more and more immigration to look after them, we can't just keep filling the country up with more and more people. We're like someone funding their lifestyles on credit card debit and their only solution is to borrow more money.

 

[noseall]

May be we need to bring in workers from other countries but they need to go back when the work is done.

Perhaps we (The UK) should join a club where people can come here specifically to work then go home again. It would need to be somewhere where there are a lot of willing young workers rather than some poverty stricken war zone.
I wonder if such a place exists?

 

[JP_]

What, like a Scotsman, Welshman or Irishman 'migrating' to England? That’s not what I mean about migrants and you know it.

tbh I am not really sure what you meant. It sounded like you suggested that as China doesn't need immigration to grow its economy, we don't either. But as I already said, we've needed immigration for a very long time. And not just the Scots, Welsh and Irish. I vaguely recall studying about European migrants from mainland Europe coming over to the East Anglia to help on the fields. The travelling gypsies would often work as farm labourers when needed. They've been around a long time.

but this thread is about immigration.

the arguments for immigration seems to dwell around that we need it for our economy, I understand that argument but it will destroy our economy, we can't just keep filling up our country with more and more people, it is a recipe for disaster. We clearly can't look after ourselves and more people joining our way of life will never solve that, it will just require yet more people.

May be we need to bring in workers from other countries but they need to go back when the work is done. We can't afford them 30 or 40 years of retirement along with social and health care, to do that will require more and more immigration to look after them, we can't just keep filling the country up with more and more people. We're like someone funding their lifestyles on credit card debit and their only solution is to borrow more money.

I think most people agree with this. However, the problem with this idea is that if we invite people here to work for 30 or so years. allow them by law to buy a home, allow their children to attend schools etc. then when they retire, why should they not have the same rights and benefits to others, many of whom, have not worked as hard as they, and not paid as much tax.

I have several friends working in other countries (America, Switzerland, Japan) and I don't think any plan to return to the UK when they retire - their children are American, Swiss, and Japanese (as are their partners). They have already invested around 20 years of their career in those countries and set up home. Should they be kicked out? And what would they do if they were forced to return to the UK - they haven't paid any tax here, or have any home, so will rely 100% on the state to support them.

It's a global world, we cannot close our borders without considering all those that have already left.

But again, nobody I know is suggesting we just fill the country up with more people, I've not seen anybody suggest that here - but yet, people keep claiming that is the plan of lefties and the like, when it simply isn't.

 

[durhamplumber]

“”””Brexit isn’t done.”””””......lololololololololololllllll......In the words of Notchy,.......Brexit Catastrophes have been DEBUNKED.FACT

 

[noseall]

“”””Brexit isn’t done

Almost. Just another 10 months to go and it will be over. No more EU benefits to worry about.

 

[durhamplumber]

Almost. Just another 10 months to go and it will be over. No more EU benefits to worry about.

11pm.last friday.you missed it.

 

[Vinty]

Britain could create its own customs Union with the Commonwealth.
2.4 billion potential customers, 54 countries with the fastest growing economies in the world.
The EU and America would be dwarfed in comparison.
All these countries have historical links with Britain so it could become a new British empire based not on conquest but in a spirit of enlightened self interest for all concerned.
Once it is up and running the EU would try to muscle in to sell their stuff, we could charge them a joining fee of 50 billion a year.
The Chinese would want in as well but they should be banned until they stop eating their pets, a dog is for life and not for Xmas(dinner).

 

[EFLImpudence]

Would such an agreement not be giving away control?

Or - do you assume the Commonwealth will just do as they are told by the UK?

 

[SirGalahad]

Britain could create its own customs Union with the Commonwealth.
2.4 billion potential customers, 54 countries with the fastest growing economies in the world.
The EU and America would be dwarfed in comparison.
All these countries have historical links with Britain so it could become a new British empire based not on conquest but in a spirit of enlightened self interest for all concerned.
Once it is up and running the EU would try to muscle in to sell their stuff, we could charge them a joining fee of 50 billion a year.
The Chinese would want in as well but they should be banned until they stop eating their pets, a dog is for life and not for Xmas(dinner).

Stop smoking pot.

Utterly ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

we've needed immigration for a very long time.

Nonsense; the very simple fact that nobody addresses is that it makes no sense, morally or economically, to bring foreign workers into the country when you have unemployed natives; especially when those unemployed are being paid public money.

The point is made in this video, albeit about the US situation, at 2 mins 33.

The reason for immigration is explained at the end of the video, starting at 3.40. It's Democrat politicians that need immigrants, not the country as a whole, because the overwhelming majority of first-time immigrant voters vote Democrat. For Britain, read Labour for Democrat.

 

[Vinty]

Stop smoking pot.

Utterly ridiculous.

Not ridiculous at all, it is already underway.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ee-trade-in-face-of-growing-global-challenges
The above is from the government itself.

Last year the Uk did 57billion in trade with the commonwealth and that is just the start.
The potential is limitless.
Read up on the UK/SACUM agreement, just accept that the old relationship between the UK and EU is gone forever.
If you don't want to be blackmailed by the EU or be exploited by Trumps America then it is time get people out of Europe and into the rest of the world to drum up business for Britain.
The Chinese are into Africa in a big way, they don't need gunboats to get business do they?
American Presidents used to tour the world to promote American cars and other stuff that people wanted, these days Trump tours the world to flog weapons and threaten other countries with sanctions if they don't by American goods.

 

[JP_]

It's Democrat politicians that need immigrants, not the country as a whole, because the overwhelming majority of first-time immigrant voters vote Democrat. For Britain, read Labour for Democrat.

Pretty sure democrat politicians were not the ones calling for more farm labourers in 19th century Lincolnshire.

These are the facts some people ignore:

Immigration is essential to many parts of British industry
Immigrants bring more value than they take

Those are irrefutable facts.

This is another good one:

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero. Fact.
​

People who deny these facts never have any evidence or research to back their arguments. I guarantee there will be replies to this providing nothing substantial to back up claims, just more propaganda about lefties, democrats and other people who are not in power at the moment.

it makes no sense, morally or economically, to bring foreign workers into the country when you have unemployed natives

If you can get all those unemployed natives to do a good job, to support British industry, and do away with the need for immigration, then you will become an incredibly rich person and probably get a knighthood to boot. So go on then, prove your theory is not only workable but is better than the current system.

 

[Notch7]

If you don't want to be blackmailed by the EU

I think reality is striking home: there arent any cake and eat it brexit deals.
There never was, despite 3 1/2years of propaganda

 

[Munroast]

I think most people agree with this. However, the problem with this idea is that if we invite people here to work for 30 or so years. allow them by law to buy a home, allow their children to attend schools etc. then when they retire, why should they not have the same rights and benefits to others, many of whom, have not worked as hard as they, and not paid as much tax.

I have several friends working in other countries (America, Switzerland, Japan) and I don't think any plan to return to the UK when they retire - their children are American, Swiss, and Japanese (as are their partners). They have already invested around 20 years of their career in those countries and set up home. Should they be kicked out? And what would they do if they were forced to return to the UK - they haven't paid any tax here, or have any home, so will rely 100% on the state to support them.

It's a global world, we cannot close our borders without considering all those that have already left.

But again, nobody I know is suggesting we just fill the country up with more people, I've not seen anybody suggest that here - but yet, people keep claiming that is the plan of lefties and the like, when it simply isn't.

I'm not suggesting we change the rules for anyone here and I know it is a very difficult subject and I have no idea what the solution is. However one thing is absolutely for certain, we can't just keep increasing our population indefinitely, something will break. we're heading for 70+ million by the end of the decade, totally unsustainable, we can only produce about 50% of the food we need now (inc exports), and we are producing that food in such an intensive manner that is destroying the soil and as such in decades to come production will be seriously reduced.