census.

[AronSearle]

Here's an example of the modern NHS V Private..

Did you even read the conservative proposals?

No, I bet you didn't from your knee-jerk NHS vs Private reaction, and your tale of "private" care woe.

Seriously read it, you may still say it's a pile of steaming dog droppings, but you'll see it's got nothing to do with "destroying the NHS" as all the care unions and labour have painted it to be, but it puts more power in the patients hand and less in the staff, hmmm can't think why the unions would be against that?

http://www.conservatives.com/pdf/NHSautonomyandaccountability.pdf


But as to the subject of privatising of health care!

The subbing out of work is a scandal waiting to be uncovered

France has been consistently rated as giving the best care in Europe (and the world), yet all medical care is provided by private companies, the same as most euro countries, the cost is state funded, the care is privately provided.

Clearly the issue is not subbing out to private companies, but how it is being mismanaged.

If private provision was the issue, then the NHS wouldn't be lagging behind so many other countries with private provision so badly in WHO ratings (and WHO ratings also include in their rankings availability of health care for the poor, which is why the US rates so poorly as well).

 

[joinerjohn]

No, I bet you didn't from your knee-jerk NHS vs Private reaction, and your tale of "private" care woe.

Knee jerk reaction?? I must admit , this is our first (and hopefully last) experience of NHS subcontracting to the private sector. I have yet to hear of an NHS consultant or doctor, not turning up for work , claiming he was "Unaware he had any appointments today" and then refusing to come into work. No doubt he's probably taken the attitude that "Ahh well it's only NHS work." and probably feels that it's beneath him.
Now a proper knee jerk reaction wouldn't be by me, but would be taken by NHS bosses who took Nuffield Derby hospital off their sub contractor list.
I support out NHS fully and having needed them a week ago, I can only praise them.

 

[AronSearle]

Knee jerk reaction??

Well yes, because if you actually read the conservatives proposals, you would see how irrelevant your private vs NHS diatribe is as it is only a small part of their proposed changes.

But no, you just do what the unions want you to do, Knee jerk reaction about conservative changes, and rant on about how bad private provision is.

I support out NHS fully and having needed them a week ago, I can only praise them.

I can give you several stories of NHS incompetence that has lead to severe upset (not being able to have a kid, years and years of physical pain due to misdiagnoses), I can tell you of someone that had to go private because the NHS doctor insisted nothing was wrong with the patient and he was being a hypochondriac (he had cancer).

But that proves nothing other than some doctors are incompetent or uncaring, which is all your example proves.


Like I said above, most other countries only have private provision, yet our healthcare lags behind many of them, subbing out isn't the issue.

You should treat the NHS like any other company, if it does what it's supposed to do, great, if not, chuck it.

"supporting" the NHS like some holy cow just shields it from fairly earned criticism and well needed change.

Far too many people would defend the NHS even if a better alternative existed, if that alternative had any mention of the word "private".

 

[cigamseinnub]

Aron please read up on frances health care policy before suggesting it as a paragon of a private health care system ,and one we should adopt. during our last discussion i did read up on it it aint all cherry pie there either. 20% of your wage spent on health care then you pay for 30% cost at point of deliever and the country still has a 6 billion health bill deficit.
now reading con part manifesto you linked to
have you actually read it? got to page ten and its management speak gobbledegook so far have you seen the first flow chart , ploughing on though
like this core principle they support #7"Public funds for healthcare will be devoted solely to NHS patients."
want to see how they can marry this with private companies profiting from nhs

 

[AronSearle]

Aron please read up on frances health care policy before suggesting it as a paragon of a private health care system ,and one we should adopt.

I'm not doing that, though I can see I have given that impression.

I'm simply pointing out that privatisation has merits, and that pretty much the rest of the world uses private supply public funding, I mentioned France simply because it's rated as No.1, no reason not to look at nordic countries, Germany, Spain etc.

But we dismiss it out of hand in this country due to some fear of the word "private", and start babbling on about the USA and leaving the poor to die.

want to see how they can marry this with private companies profiting from nhs

Like this, some fear of profit.

Such discussions become dominated by "but what if someone makes profit" as if this is a bad thing.

In fact people start talking about this, before looking at whether it will improve service.

Would you be happy with say a 30% improvement in healthcare provision at the cost of "gasp" someone making money from it?

Most people won't even entertain the idea, as if it's morally repugnant (whilst turning a blind eye to NHS doctors who get paid +£100k wages).

And then of course you have to remember that most companies only make profits of between 3-8%.

3-8% profit, not really a scary number for the headlines is it?

 

[pred]

Absolute nonsense again.

I've lived overseas and integrated just fine. Nobody forced me to, I did it because I wanted to.

There were a lot of miserable UK expats who didn't and all they did was moan. Moan about this, moan about that, moan about their new home which they choosed to live in, moan about the UK.

In fact there is nothing worse than a UK expat when overseas IMO, I much preferred to hang out with the natives.

My mantra was to appreciate the things which are better, tolerate the things which are worse. I got on just fine.

Plenty of 'foreign types' have integrated in the UK, in fact I'm working with three of them right now.

YES!! I am also working with three hard working foreiners who have integrated, their names are Swallow, Honey and Yesmin..