HGV and gatso

[AdamW]

I was just thinking about Gatsos and a quarry dumper truck and thought of an issue with Gatsos

If you speed past in a car or on a bike, FLASH FLASH they have two pictures of the back of your vehicle. Easy.

Now, what happens if you are driving a long HGV? You speed past the camera and FLASH FLASH, they have a picture of the back of your cab, and another of part of your trailer. Not much use if there are no company markings on the vehicle.

Is there something to get round this? Does a garden-variety Gatso "know" where the back of the vehicle is (via the radar), or is it something simpler, perhaps a law that says numberplates must be visible from the side on the HGV tractor?

 

[masona]

Is there something to get round this?

Yes, each roadcar have to have a tachograph by law and the police can pull them over anytime they like. On the tachograph it shows the police where you been at what time and even speeding. I think they have to keep the tachograph as least 6 months by the company they working for and they send it on to traffic police department which they can look at random.

 

[AdamW]

Ah, so they can cross-reference it. Good idea. Is there any plan to introduce a new design of tacho in the future that stores the data on a digital medium, possibly with GPS information showing exactly where they were? A bit big brotherish, but would make it possible to check every disc automatically by computer.

There must be HGV drivers getting away with it because the police hardly have the resources to check every tacho disc to see who went past the camera on London Road at 38mph in a 30 zone!

 

[oilman]

I don't know how much information is used from tachos. I reported a Tesco tanker driver for exceeding every speed limit on a seven mile section of single carriageway road. I got a letter from his manager saying he had talked to the driver and he could not remember the incident.

So, Mr. Tesco, there you have it. Your drivers drive lorries with hazardous contents. (This one was probably empty so it only had the explosive vapours). They do it at speeds higher than the limits, and their managers don't care much, even though they could see the evidence from the tacho.

Thank you Mr. Tesco for all the concern you have for your potential customers.

 

[masona]

Is there any plan to introduce a new design of tacho in the future that stores the data on a digital medium, possibly with GPS information showing exactly where they were? A bit big brotherish, but would make it possible to check every disc automatically by computer.

We know where all ours road tanker are ! All roadcar have a tracker system in their cab link to the computer so they can route them better thus saving money if a late delivery is needed, also keep an eye on the driver

Oilman,

Was it a Tesco petrol tanker ? Delivery area ? If you reported it to the Tesco store, it will be a waste of time as it's nothing to do with them. If it was a petrol tanker, these driver are not employed by Tesco.

 

[masona]

If you speed past in a car or on a bike, FLASH FLASH they have two pictures of the back of your vehicle. Easy.
Now, what happens if you are driving a long HGV? You speed past the camera and FLASH FLASH, they have a picture of the back of your cab, and another of part of your trailer. Not much use if there are no company markings on the vehicle.

Just spoken to some of our driver's tonight who drive the road tanker and they have been caught speeding by gatso camera. They explained to me the camera only flashed when the back end of the road tanker appears on the white line marking, so it can get caravan or long vehicles as well. They also told me the latest gatso camera can catch you speeding 2 miles long from the camera, not been approved yet. I can't see how though.

 

[AdamW]

In which case, we should all drive longer cars.

If you are driving something 50 feet long then there would be less "Is that a camera? *FLASH* bu**er". You would see the hidden cameras, have time to slow down enough that the two photos show you travelling within the speed limit (albeit with the nose of the vehicle pointing downwards and big red brakelights illuminated)

 

[TexMex]

Gatsos don't need to concern themselves with lorries, because Lorry drivers always stick to the limits anyhow. Don't they?

Since most of our Haulage is now done by our friendly European neighbours. What would happen if one of these drivers was Gatsoed. Would extradition procedures be taken out, to bring them back to face the music?

 

[masona]

I'm afraid some cowboy company don't brother using a tachogragh and if they do they can by-pass it with a rubber band to give a false reading.

 

[david and julie]

How can the law expect a foreigner to understand such a complicated system such as we operate.

A friend of mine was recently given a ticket(hand held camera) he was doing 63 on a road marked 60, he was told his speed limit(LWB Transit) is 50, an HGV is 40. The onus is on the driver to know his vehicles speed limits.

If speed limits are really a safety issue and not a cash cow, should they not display the lower limits and err on the side of safety?

If any of you drive vans, check the gross weights, and your own particular limits before you fall for the same thing.

 

[AdamW]

My understanding of the current system with regards to driving in the EU is that if you are stopped by the Police then you are liable for the fine. They can't take your licence or put points on it.

However, with gatsos, do they have to submit the ticket to Interpol? Or post it to the DVLA equivalent in whatever country and ask them to deal with it?

I wonder how long it is before they start to bring our licence and penalty systems in line with each other? We must have the strictest system as I have never seen another country in the EU where people will stick to speed limits (or lane markings).

 

[oilman]

Was it a Tesco petrol tanker ? Delivery area ? If you reported it to the Tesco store, it will be a waste of time as it's nothing to do with them. If it was a petrol tanker, these driver are not employed by Tesco.

I rang the 0800 225533 number on the back of the lorry. I don't care if they are employed by Tesco or not, in the end Mr. Tesco pays for them to do the work so he can sell loads of cheap petrol which puts small garages out of business.

 

[david and julie]

Oilman....I can understand your concerns and anger, unfortunately the guy you spoke to has little choice but to believe the driver (even if he believes you).

When a truck is pulled for a tacho check the inspectors are mainly looking for breaches in drivers hours regulations. If a chart showed a speed of say 45mph, 2 hours earlier, the inspector wouldn't know if the truck was in a 30,40 or even 50 zone so would ignore it. Speed traces are mainly used at the actual time of an offence or accident.

The police could theoretically backtrack a vehicle, but this would be both time consuming and expensive. I should think they would only do this for very serious or high profile cases.

Current analogue tacho's are often fiddled by operators and drivers,most fiddles are pretty brutal and commonly known to the DOT inspectors. Digital tacho's will be compulsory in europe by 2008 and can store a years worth of info in them. Although these are supposed to be harder to fiddle I believe software is already available to do just that.

I am not sure about using company owned tracking systems to prosecute companies or drivers. That sounds like a human rights issue, I didn't think you had to help the law prosecute you.

 

[masona]

Sadly it's the oil company shutting down small petrol forecourt with less than 3 petrol pumps because it's not economical anymore and because of these supermarket petrol forecourt are selling it less for what we charge them for, just so to get you into their shop like Tesco and Safeway and so on.
This is now why you see Safeway & Tesco on the oil company forecourt just to keep the oil company happy but we still have a very small profit margin in petrol on top of all this. We can't charge them more because the superstore are our biggest customer, can't win.

Tesco driver's are employed by Tankfreight at Harrogate.

We only make money on Oil, Gas & Bitumen to offset the small profit margin petrol.

I'm afraid that's the way business works.

The only winner is the government tax on petrol duty.

 

[david and julie]

Masona...your dead right about the gov winning again. Did you see the news the other day they've gained an EXTRA, unbudgetted for, £3billion, upto now this year, just from oil price increases alone.