May Hammered Over Police Numbers

[noseall]

Hmmmm don't see u answering to many questions Noseall

Show me a sensible question that you would like answering.

 

[Doggit]

So, Youssef Zaghba was caught by the italians trying to go to Syria to fight. But whilst it was stupid of our border force to let him in, why didn't the Italians prosecute him and lock him up when they caught him.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

So, Youssef Zaghba was caught by the italians trying to go to Syria to fight. But whilst it was stupid of our border force to let him in, why didn't the Italians prosecute him and lock him up when they caught him.

Why not ask the Italians?
Perhaps it is not a crime in Italy to want to fly to Syria?
How can you prove why someone wants to fly to anywhere?
Perhaps in Italy it is not a crime to want to fly to Syria to participate in a war?

In the UK it is an offence to "aid a terror group". ISIS is named as a terror group in UK. Is that the same in Italy?

There is legislation, the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870, that made it illegal for any Briton to enlist in a foreign army at war with a state at peace with the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2015/feb/25/brits-abroad-against-law-fight-isis
But is the UK at peace with Syria?
It is all a grey area.
BUT, the border force did have the power to refuse him entry, merely on suspicion!
They chose not to! Or were so underfunded/understaffed, they could not do their job properly!

 

[JohnD]

It's very rare for any country to declare war now.

For example, there was never a "Falklands War" although Thatcherists started to use the term after it was over.

Nations like to say they are involved in "peacekeeping operations."

 

[EFLImpudence]

So, Youssef Zaghba was caught by the italians trying to go to Syria to fight ... why didn't the Italians prosecute him and lock him up when they caught him.

What do you mean by "caught him trying"?

Perhaps Italy doesn't mind them going but doesn't let them back.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

He was not prosecuted, but the Italian authorities said they told UK intelligence agencies about him and added his details to an EU-wide database, the Schengen Information System 2

SIS 2 is designed to trigger an alert when a suspect passes through passport control.


.....The Home Office is not commenting on Zaghba's case.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40195212

 

[Brigadier]

BUT, the border force did have the power to refuse him entry, merely on suspicion!
They chose not to! Or were so underfunded/understaffed, they could not do their job properly!

I really don't get this; every time I have left / returned to UK, i have had to queue up and have my passport scrutinised; never once been waved through.
Passports get scanned a number of times, so surely this would flash something up for the border agent?
Did he come back in on a false passport?
In a dinghy, under cover of darkness?

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

I really don't get this; every time I have left / returned to UK, i have had to queue up and have my passport scrutinised; never once been waved through.
Passports get scanned a number of times, so surely this would flash something up for the border agent?
Did he come back in on a false passport?
In a dinghy, under cover of darkness?

They know when he came to UK, so, supposedly, he used the normal means of transport.

No-one has confirmed exactly what happened when Zaghba arrived in the UK earlier this year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40195212

 

[JohnD]

Did he come back in on a false passport?
In a dinghy, under cover of darkness?

Is it possible that cost-saving measures, like decimating the police and border agencies, could have any effect?

Suspicion must turn to the person who was in charge of Britain's security services at the time... former Home Secretary Theresa May.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1852920621626543

 

[daxu]

Is it possible that cost-saving measures, like decimating the police and border agencies, could have any effect?

Suspicion must turn to the person who was in charge of Britain's security services at the time... former Home Secretary Theresa May.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1852920621626543

If that guy is not on the list (UK Warnings Index), how can he be refused entry?
/*
No one has confirmed whether or not Zaghba was on this Index, but it's thought to be very unlikely.*/

If that is true, it won't matter how many polices UK adds in as he didn't break any rule at that time.
If will be much more effective to look at the human rights law, so more people can be added.
I feel police hands are still too tied to challenge these people and something needs to change (not only money).

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

If that guy is not on the list (UK Warnings Index), how can he be refused entry?
/*
No one has confirmed whether or not Zaghba was on this Index, but it's thought to be very unlikely.*/

If that is true, it won't matter how many polices UK adds in as he didn't break any rule at that time.
If will be much more effective to look at the human rights law, so more people can be added.
I feel police hands are still too tied to challenge these people and something needs to change (not only money).

He clearly was on one list at least:

He was not prosecuted, but the Italian authorities said they told UK intelligence agencies about him and added his details to an EU-wide database, the Schengen Information System 2 (SIS 2).

But if you are referring to a UK only list, do you mean this one:

Home Office Warnings Index Database Out of Date?
You know when you arrive at the airport in the UK and the immigration officer asks you a series of silly questions and swipes your passport through some techno-looking piece of equipment? Being, as you are, a decent and law-abiding person, they will (in most cases) allow you out of the airport into the rolling pastures of the UK and everything is fine.

But it is the case – or at least it should be – that a person who has got Bad Stuff on their record (deportees, terrorists, criminals, that kind of thing) should not get through the checks. There is a thing called the Home Office Warnings Index Database which should flag up when such a person’s passport is scanned and gives the Immigration Officer the opportunity to deny them entry to the UK.

http://www.ukvisas.com/blog/home-office-warnings-index-database-out-of-date/

Home Office borders security scheme is '£1bn waste of money'
National Audit Office finds that system due to be replaced and used to identify potential terrorists regularly collapses with 16 million people going unchecked.
But according to a recent report by the National Audit Office the Warnings Index now contains a “great deal of out-of-date information”, is now “unstable” (which sounds very worrying) and, furthermore, is “at risk of collapsing”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...cing-staff-to-rely-on-incomplete-intelligence

Britain's terrorist warnings index crashes 'twice a week'

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/home-office-e-borders-security-report
and there is many more worrying reports about the system.

Do you see a worrying trend emerging?
UK Brexiteer politicians are telling us we are better, safer and stronger without the EU, BUT......

 

[Gerrydelasel]

No shortage of police when they feel like it...

 

[JohnD]

the cat was shocked to see there is still one policeman on the street

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1853129518272320

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Would that be Tommy Robinson, former leader of the EDL, that posts such comments s this:

and this:

Yet their mission statement states:

Whilst we must always protect against the unjust assumption that all Muslims are complicit in or somehow responsible for these crimes

We believe that the proponents of radical Islam have a stranglehold on British Muslims. These radicals dominate Muslim organisations, remain key figures in British mosques, and are steadily increasing their influence. Radical Islam keeps British Muslims fearful and isolated...

etc
http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/mission-statement

He seems pretty radical to me, and trying to radicalise others. Perhaps you have been enthused by his comments?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Perhaps you have been enthused by his comments?

Perhaps you missed the point of my post entirely? Two similarly nasty men, but no shortage of police to monitor the non-terrorist one.