Rwanda

[diy_fun_uk]

the problem is that there are 2 sides to a border

we have no control over the French side and
once refugees reach UK waters they have a right to claim asylum


however much the govt try to ignore those facts, they will waste time with hairbrained schemes


Firstly the UK should take a grown up attitude to the problem, accept its not going away and deal compassionately with these refugees

1) the UK should invest massively in the asylum system so cases are dealt with very quickly
2) we should open processing centres in France -fast track people with genuine family here etc
3) fast track people with skills we desperately need -doctors, nurses, IT, farmers etc etc
3) we should massively increase our council housing stock, for UK people
4) we should massively increase our stock of housing for refugees

Its crazy the UK takes up to 7 years for asylum seekers to be processed and they arent allowed to work -we should allow them to work once they have had an initial assessment and then do their asylum claim in 6 months and deport those that have been refused

The French are happy to see the back of them. We've all seen the footage, in broad daylight, of migrants clambering to get onto/into lorries at Calais destined for the UK, with no one attempting to stop them.

I'm conflicted on this tbh. Part of me sees logic in your proposal, part of me thinks if we make the UK attractive, the numbers coming in could increase ten fold. I do wonder what upper limit folk that seem to advocate an open door policy would have. How many coming in each day would be deemed too many?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

thats because our politicians always promise jam tomorrow

its the nature of 4 or 5 year parliament cycles


the refugee crisis is very difficult, there are no easy solutions -apart from getting rid of wars and dictators causing the problem

Completely agree. I said in another thread I'm pleased that 25-30 years from now I'll be gone. I think migration and transient movement of people (due to unrest, war and climate change) is going to get a WHOLE lot worse in the decades to come.

As for our parliamentary cycles, perhaps I look at this too simplistically, but surely when it comes to things that are critical to the country (energy, health, transport) there needs to be longer term cross party agreement and strategy. Plans that every major party signs up to that can't be deviated from unless absolutely required.

Mum was a teacher for decades and got fed up with this. Change after change after change, often not for the best. New brooms sweeping clean but creating a lot of dust in the process!

 

[Notch7]

Deport them, then assess them, then process them, no ifs, no buts. This is only fair on those that come here via the legal route and many have to pay close to 20k to get permanent status in England and years of assessments/tests etc.

but what that actually means is you dont want any refugees nor want to recognise asylum

life isnt like that

 

[Notch7]

I'm conflicted on this tbh. Part of me sees logic in your proposal, part of me thinks if we make the UK attractive, the numbers coming in could increase ten fold. I do wonder what upper limit folk that seem to advocate an open door policy would have. How many coming in each day would be deemed too many?

the problem is no country wants refugees -the public dont want them and politicians fear their poll ratings

so no country wants them, no govt wants a solution and so the problem carries on

 

[motorbiking]

Section 25A
Under s. 25(A)(1) a person commits an offence if he: knowingly and for gain facilitates the arrival in or the entry into the United Kingdom of an individual, and. knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the individual is an asylum-seeker.

Personally I'd doubt if the person handling the boat when they arrive is anything other than an asylum seeker. The person who buys the boat may be one as well. Surely we have all seen clips of people walking vast distances to get here. There seems to be an assumption that all are bused most of the way here. That is more associated with more organised people smuggling - the deluxe route that may finish up as slavery, prostitution or just let loose here. Once in Europe people could use any of the available transport. Land boarders sound great there are official points to go through - what about the spaces in between them. Arrive by boat - go to a port or pick a suitable landing place - any old beach will do.

So these people may not have visas at all. They may have been transported by smugglers. They may have just walked part or all of the trip.

What are people smugglers when they are involved - crooks. All countries have them. Bribes might be used in certain situations.

It's all so easy to fix but why do drugs and other things get into the country if it is that easy. When people are asylum seekers various rules come into play. NGO's may feed or some one picks up the bodies periodically.

Border force do tend to go after the helmsman/skipper and they do tend to go after anyone who has paid a trafficker. My perception is there are many more who got here by paying people to help them than those who walked from somewhere else.

To legally enter the UK by boat (from Iraq) without crossing any other land boarder is around 22,000 Nautical miles. Bit tricky in a rubber dingy.

 

[motorbiking]

You could get it down to 12,000Nm if you took the Suez route. But that would likely involve breaking the law. 16 grand in Fuel.

 

[jj4091]

Your posts are very confusing - in your earlier post you said waiting times were massive because most of the doctors were foreign, now you are suggesting it was local nurses and porters that were maybe not pulling their weight ?

How do you know who was foreign and who was local ? are you asking everyone where they are from or are you just basing stuff on skin colour ?

My apologies exhaustion made my response unclear. I was actually not making any complaint but trying to say that having spent so long there one got the chance to observe all the comings & goings & that the problems appear to be as much to do with society as the NHS. Explaining that more fully would take up more time & space than I wish to use. Being a foreigner had no bearing on the problem but it would be a lot worse without the foreign medical staff. My maths was also a bit out of kilter as I included 1.5 hrs travelling ( a separate issue ), 8 hours waiting to see a doctor & 2 hours of treatment which reduces the total slightly.
I think you must be a little naive if you cannot recognise those with different accents & other differences from locals.

 

[jj4091]

What, an inner city one will be the same as one in the shires - no immigrants in the queue but all doctors were of foreign descent?

How did you know that?

Perhaps inner city hospitals might be different but this is a smallish hospital covering a population of approx. 70k people in the north of England. Perhaps immigration numbers are lower here but I would think they must be proportional. I'm not getting into a discussion about how one can tell if a person or their family has relatively recently arrived from abroad, but I'm sure you can judge that as well as I can.

 

[ajohn]

in broad daylight, of migrants clambering to get onto/into lorries at Calais destined for the UK, with no one attempting to stop them.

If you had passed through the French docks you would see that there is a lot of effort to stop that route in. I did recently n a coach and even those are carefully checked. TBH I don't think that method figures that much any more. Boats are another matter and some privately owned ones might even figure.

 

[motorbiking]

£1,500 to 2k to go on a dingy? I could charter this for £2.5k per day - another £1,500 for fuel. 10-15 onboard.

£18k per day profit. I could offer a luxury version. I could probably negotiate a deal with the gov. to take 'em back for £3k per head.

 

[ajohn]

To legally enter the UK by boat (from Iraq) without crossing any other land boarder is around 22,000 Nautical miles. Bit tricky in a rubber dingy.

Not in the news a lot of late but boats cross the Mediterranean. Turkey has a lot of refugees - the land route with a longish swim. across the Bosphorus. Boats maybe too. Walk across a bridge? Keep trying until for some reason they get through. Forged documents can figure.

In some ways refugees are rather like the point you made about criminals. Should they be legally protected, the charters, the legal people and also charities that get involved. The refugees legal aid.

The Rwanda deal though. What we hear. Processing etc costs no different to the UK. That from an MP.. Numbers. Very much a ??????. Will the UK kick out the usual refugee protocols? £120m for infrastructure - what? Boris did mention something about education. for that? Rwanda and Congo are having problems currently - stable country??

What do they moan about most. Processing costs and additional costs when there is an appeal. Numbers quoted are always arrivals. The ones that get to stay are much lower. Human rights crops up in the other forthcoming legislation. Axe murderer taking a case out against the gov. Didn't succeed but legal people needed. Maybe they want a Priti says rule. Bit like some things the DVLA get up to - no right of appeal.

Why are there real refugees - usually because countries contain ethnic groups, more extreme than the ones we have in the UK, most of the time. One country interfering with another also crops up. Starvation can figure. One "refugee" interviewed from Africa feels he has the right to work where ever he likes in the world. A person may feel like that coming from a country where they for various reasons can be a true refugee. If accepted anywhere they will be wanted to work and not drain the state. Criminals get deported - even those from Europe proper.

We issued ~430,000 student visas last year. Mostly higher education. This can include the right to work for 2 years after graduation.

In 2021 (for the year ending in September), the UK issued 428,428 sponsored study visas to international students and their dependents

​

Sponsored study visas issued (main applicants)

275,204​

215,717​

386,858​

This can be a route to staying permanently.

Leaves me thinking what's a few refugees providing they are working.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

no they say they will process claims in France

that is collaboration with the French and it means genine refugees with a valid reason to be in UK can come here

Leaving the rest to continue to come across, taking the risk in a dingy?

 

[Deleted member 294929]

Who was the geezer that got on a boat heading over the channel to find another land. Christopher Columbus that’s it.

That's what Italians did. But we do don't do things like that anymore unless your Russian

 

[ajohn]

Who was the geezer that got on a boat heading over the channel to find another land. Christopher Columbus that’s it.

That's what Italians did. But we do don't do things like that anymore unless your Russian

 

[Android 07]

Shows what you know about Kuwait.

Lived there after the first Gulf war. Yes, Heaven forbid if I should not know about it!

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