EICR Questions

[WhydidIstart]

Hi and thanks for all the comments and information. Nothing from NICEIC as yet, but I imagine it may take several days for them to respond, if they do at all.

Useful to know it’s pretty unlikely he was able to do all the required tests in 30 mins.

Yes, it looks like a council rewire has been done maybe around the 90s I would guess. However nothing is clipped direct. All the cables come down to the CU in large surface mounted plastic trunking from the ceiling above the CU, which is mounted about eye height along with the electricity meter in the entrance hallway. Almost all of the rest of the installation has cables plastered into the walls.

 

[JohnW2]

Hi and thanks for all the comments and information. Nothing from NICEIC as yet, but I imagine it may take several days for them to respond, if they do at all.

Thanks - as you say, it will probably take a little time.

... However nothing is clipped direct. All the cables come down to the CU in large surface mounted plastic trunking from the ceiling above the CU, which is mounted about eye height along with the electricity meter in the entrance hallway. Almost all of the rest of the installation has cables plastered into the walls.

Fair enough. If most of the cables are "plastered into walls", then that is 'Method C' - so that's perhaps one aspect of the EICR that they got right. As I wrote previously, although Method C is colloquially described as 'clipped direct' (and it obviously does cover that), Method C also includes cables buried in walls, and that is the most common situation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

it's actually impossible to answer "Yes" ...

If you supply a test cert, the answer is "yes".
If you don't, the answer is no.

 

[JohnW2]

If you supply a test cert, the answer is "yes"....

It obviously would be. However, as I presume you understood, my point was that, as I illustrated, there is no 'box' on the form to tick to record that "yes". However, as you say, if one supplies a test certificate, then there isn't really an issue (because of the implicit "yes").

... If you don't, the answer is no.

That's not really true. If one doesn't supply a cert, that means EITHER that the answer is "no", OR that the answer (which one has nowhere to record) is actually "yes" but, nevertheless, one has not supplied a cert (e.g. because the cert is 'lost').

Kind Regards, John

 

[WhydidIstart]

Hi, email from NICEIC:


Thank you for contacting NICEIC.

To assist you further I have forwarded your email over to our Technical Team for further guidance, a colleague will be in contact shortly.

Should you require any further support, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service helpline on; 0333 015 6625.

Kind Regards


Kate Dolling | Customer Service Advisor | Certsure LLP

 

[WhydidIstart]

Received a reply from NICEIC today:


Thank you for your enquiry.

We offer the following guidance without knowledge of the installation.

The Introduction to the current wiring regulations BS 7671: 2018 states the following:

‘Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading’

Therefore providing your consumer unit is still in good condition and does not present any potential or immediate danger to the user of the installation there is no direct requirement to upgrade the unit

If the report has been completed by one of our registered Approved Contractors and you have reason to believe that the report does not reflect the condition of the electrical installation reported on, we recommend that you should in the first instance raise the specific concerns in writing with the NICEIC Approved Contractor. If the concerns remain unresolved the person ordering the report may make a formal complaint to NICEIC for which a complaint form is available on request.

Details of our complaints procedure can be found on the NICEIC website. http://www.niceic.com/find-a-contractor/complaints

We trust this answers your questions.

Regards
NICEIC & ELECSA| Technical Services



I'm pretty impressed with their response, not too slow, they seems to have read and understood my email and confirm what everyone has said on the forum - although I guess the definition of 'potential or immediate danger' could be up for discussion.

Next issue is that I have searched for this company on the NICEIC site and they come up with the Approvals circled below. This doesn't show "Approved Contractor" but does show "Domestic Installer".

Does anyone know if a registered "Domestic Installer" is a type of approved contractor, or does this mean I can't complain to NICEIC as they don't have the Approved Contractor status? Looking back at the EICR form I was given, it shows the NICEIC logo and Domestic Installer, so they are not claiming to be something they are not.

I have downloaded the complaint form and it doesn't mention the type of approval and just asks for a registration number if known.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Domestic Installer is a category invented by NICEIC which means they have only been tested for domestic installations and not commercial/industrial so makes no difference to your situation.
He could still do commercial/industrial but not under the NICEIC banner. Elecsa who are now partners of NICEIC used not to distinguish and all registered electricians were "Approved Contractors".

As the list is headed "Approval" surely it can be assumed that the electrician is an "Approved Domestic Installer"
and for commercial/industrial they must be "Approved Approved Contractor".

The electrical trade is not the best at thinking up suitable names.

 

[JohnW2]

Domestic Installer is a category invented by NICEIC which means they have only been tested for domestic installations and not commercial/industrial so makes no difference to your situation ..... As the list is headed "Approval" surely it can be assumed that the electrician is an "Approved Domestic Installer" ... and for commercial/industrial they must be "Approved Approved Contractor".

One would hope, for the OP's sake, that that is all correct, but if one Googles the question, there seem to be a good few people suggesting that NICIEC do not 'approve' their ('approved') 'Domestic installers' to undertake EICRs. As I presume is what is concerning the OP, the worry seems to be (given that they appear to have a specific meaning of "Approved Contractor", which is something different from a 'Domestic Installer') that they wrote to him ".... If the report has been completed by one of our registered Approved Contractors ....".

Unless someone can obtain clarification from the NICIEC website (i have so far failed!), I suppose he will either have to ask them - or just go ahead and complete and submit their Complaint form, anyway - and see what happens!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

You might be correct if NICEIC want to quibble.

However, no one needs approval of a scheme provider to carry out EICRs although some do offer approvals to carry out EICRs.


So, either the electrician is approved by NICEIC for EICRs or they will be after him for using their logo for work for which he is not approved.
They would be saying that, although an approved domestic installer, he is not approved for work which he is entitled to do in a domestic situation.

 

[JohnW2]

You might be correct if NICEIC want to quibble.

Well, it might just be their 'rules'.

However, no one needs approval of a scheme provider to carry out EICRs although some do offer approvals to carry out EICRs.

True.

So, either the electrician is approved by NICEIC for EICRs or they will be after him for using their logo for work for which he is not approved. They would be saying that, although an approved domestic installer, he is not approved for work which he is entitled to do in a domestic situation.

Indeed. What is interesting, if I understand the OP correctly, is that the back of the NICIEC EICR form used apparently bears the NICIEC "Domestic Installer" logo - if that was 'put there' by NICIEC, there obviously must be an implication that Domestic Installers may undertake EICRs!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

Despite what others suggest it makes every difference. Only Approved Contractors are permitted to conduct periodic inspections as part of their NICEIC Enrolment so they wouldn't and shouldn't stand over a Domestic Installer inspection.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Despite what others suggest it makes every difference. Only Approved Contractors are permitted to conduct periodic inspections as part of their NICEIC Enrolment

Only because NICEIC say that. Anyone can do EICRs (Admittedly most shouldn't).

so they wouldn't and shouldn't stand over a Domestic Installer inspection.

What does that mean?

 

[WhydidIstart]

Hi and thanks for all the quick replies.

Yes the report issued has this logo on:

Sounds like there is some ambiguity, so I have thanked NICEIC for their reply and asked if their complaints form and procedure also applies to registered 'Domestic Installers'.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes the report issued has this logo on: ....

That is on the 'Schedules' form, which may well also be used for things (e.g. Installation Certificates, EICs) other than EICRs. Does that logo also appear on the pages which are clearly specific to EICRs (such as the "Observations and Recommendations" page you originally showed us)?

Sounds like there is some ambiguity, so I have thanked NICEIC for their reply and asked if their complaints form and procedure also applies to registered 'Domestic Installers'.

That sounds very reasonable. Let us know what they say!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

Only because NICEIC say that. Anyone can do EICRs (Admittedly most shouldn't).

I clearly stated "as part of their NICEIC enrolment".