Homeowners doing their own electrical work

[andyr123]

I live in Ireland and over here we have a TV advert running at the moment on nationwide TV station about "If you are going to call out an electrician they must be RECI (Registered Electrical Contractors of Ireland) certified electricians and they say 'Its the Law!' "

What's the score in the UK now, when people hire an electrician from where-ever do they have to get a registered contractor, or can it be some handyman guy jack of all trades?

The thing that seems to be a grey line is what if you are a consumer/general member of the public and you got a new cooker or a hob and you wanted to install it and wire it up yourself, or you wanted to replace that bulkhead light outside with a PIR halogen light or change that pendant in the kitchen with a fluorescent striplight... if you have to make sure you get a qualified and certified electrician by law, can a consumer do those jobs and stay within the law. How is that issue in the UK?

 

[flameport]

What's the score in the UK now, when people hire an electrician from where-ever do they have to get a registered contractor, or can it be some handyman guy jack of all trades?

Anyone can and usually does do whatever they want. Next to no regulation and even less enforcement.

In England and Wales a few things should be notified to building control, but the only people who do that are electricians who are members of a scheme.
Everyone else either does not know or does not care.

In theory non-notification of notifiable works is an offence. In reality, no one has been prosecuted for that alone. The few that that were prosecuted for non-notification were due to the work they had done being so dangerous that it killed people - the lack of notification was just added in as part of it.

People are frequently told that lack of notification will cause all kinds of problems when they sell their house - in reality this is not true either, as the questions about electrical work done and documentation are usually answered with don't know / lost / forgotten.

 

[conny]

Think you would be best to post this in the electrical forum as there are rules over here which may be different to Ireland.
Basically though you are advised to use a registered electrician to do a lot of jobs but there are some you can do yourself if you are 'competent'.
The phrase 'competent' is open to various understandings on that forum I should warn you. LOL

 

[securespark]

As you may know, we have had Part 'P' of the building regulations over here for a while. They were initially quite restrictive but have been watered down.

As a DIY'er, you can do most things apart from work inside the zones of a bathroom, installing a new circuit or installing a new consumer unit without having to contact the authorities or use an electrician who has to register the work with the Local Authority.

You can do the other work too, but you would need to notify the LA and pay a fee.

 

[blightymam]

People are frequently told that lack of notification will cause all kinds of problems when they sell their house - in reality this is not true either, as the questions about electrical work done and documentation are usually answered with don't know / lost / forgotten.

Yep, we had that when we last sold up. Other half rewired the house years back and because of no documents, they sent an electrician to check everything a couple of weeks before exchanging. Think it was more of a way to try and knock down the price tho and found nothing wrong

 

[HawkEye244]

I live in Ireland and over here we have a TV advert running at the moment on nationwide TV station about "If you are going to call out an electrician they must be RECI (Registered Electrical Contractors of Ireland) certified electricians and they say 'Its the Law!' "

What's the score in the UK now, when people hire an electrician from where-ever do they have to get a registered contractor, or can it be some handyman guy jack of all trades?

The thing that seems to be a grey line is what if you are a consumer/general member of the public and you got a new cooker or a hob and you wanted to install it and wire it up yourself, or you wanted to replace that bulkhead light outside with a PIR halogen light or change that pendant in the kitchen with a fluorescent striplight... if you have to make sure you get a qualified and certified electrician by law, can a consumer do those jobs and stay within the law. How is that issue in the UK?

It's not an issue in the UK, only when it comes to renting and something like a fire happens the courts AND the insurance company (if you have landlord insurance) will want to see proof the elecrtics were installed and signed off.

Insurance companies don't pay out if there's no record of an installation, so long as it's either building regulations compliant (part p) or someone has done a EICR (electrical installation condition report) which will last five years.

Generally if you follow the legislation for renting it also covers when/if you want to sell the property. In otherwords by complying with landlord legislation in the UK I inadvertantly cover myself for all/any questions/queries the buyer is going to have if I sold my property because I have all the gas safety/electrical/building certs etc, or I have proof the installation is up to scratch via EICR.

In terms of who does the work? I'm not convinced competancy schemes actually do what they are intended to. Primarily you judge a contractor on what other work they have done prior.I would never hire someone just because they are a member of a competency scheme, I also wouldn't necessarily pay a premium to them for it either.

Ultimately it's the home owner's responsibility what goes on in their home, they can pretty much do what they like. That's the benefit of living in a free country.

 

[noseall]

Ultimately it's the home owner's responsibility what goes on in their home, they can pretty much do what they like. That's the benefit of living in a free country.

Free country? Carte blanche? Are you allowed to break any law or just the less serious ones?

 

[EFLImpudence]

What landlord legislation is that?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Free country? Carte blanche? Are you allowed to break any law or just the less serious ones?

As HawkEye noted you can do "pretty much" what you like. There are very few laws relating to what you can do in your home. That leaves you a lot of stuff you're allowed to do.

 

[HawkEye244]

What landlord legislation is that?

It's about covering your arse if you ever have to stand in front of a judge. In theory you could rent without any paperwork at all but then if the tenant decides they've got your number they can make your life a living hell. Just one example not even related to the state of a property,.. landlord's can be sued up to I think 5 grand now for not registering a tenant's deposit. So you have to be careful if you don't want to comply with all this stuff, it's a bit of a risk now, especially as some tenant's are so thirsty for their day in court, when money is involved people become animals.

I've been on a landlord's training course and I'm a member of a landlord's association for about £40 a year I think I pay, but it's worth it because there's usually a ton of stuff you aren't aware of that can come back to haunt you if you don't deal with it the right way.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I did mean, and the thread is about, the electrical work.

The landlord has a duty of care to ensure the installation is "safe".
There is no legislation relating to the electrics in rented property (apart from HMOs).

 

[HawkEye244]

I did mean, and the thread is about, the electrical work.

The landlord has a duty of care to ensure the installation is "safe".
There is no legislation relating to the electrics in rented property (apart from HMOs).

Yes we agree. I was just taking a philisophical stance. Also, you know me here well enough, I'm the last person to comply with legislation/laws no questions asked, but I was trying to toe the responsible line on this subject because taking short cuts is one thing but if people think they can rent a sh1t hole of a property thinking they can get away with it which ends up harming people I don't want to help them in doing that.

In otherwords we don't want to give people the impression they can do what they like with their property even though they pretty much can do what they like and get away with it. So I side with the government in trying to crack down on sh1t landlords, except what they don't realise is that I and many people know they are pretty powerless to do much to private landlords, you just hope the sh1t landlords don't catch onto that and do the right thing out of 'fear' of what might happen to them. I do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because I'm scared of government, does that make sense?

 

[EFLImpudence]

One thing the Government is doing, it would seem, is to discourage all British private landlords from buying to let with interest only mortgages with their recent proposal that:

mortgage interest should no longer be countable as a business expense but capital gains will still apply.
This would not apply to corporate or foreign landlords.

 

[HawkEye244]

One thing the Government is doing, it would seem, is to discourage all British private landlords from buying to let with interest only mortgages with their recent proposal that:

mortgage interest should no longer be countable as a business expense but capital gains will still apply.
This would not apply to corporate or foreign landlords.

I wouldn't pretend to understand why they would make foreign investor's their preference considering what's happened recently in places like London where a lot of privately owned inner city property is bought up by Chinese/Russian/Israeli investor's that don't even live in the property just wait until it appreciates in value and then sell to the highest bidder. You tell me.

As a white british person I feel hated and despised by my own government, well until Farage came on the scene and started representing us, and he is despised by the political class for it.

I can only assume they are targetting british because as citizens they have more control over us. Very hard to chase people for money that live overseas.

 

[JohnD]

mortgage interest should no longer be countable as a business expense but capital gains will still apply.

You're talking now about people borrowing, to fund an investment on which they hope to make money? But they haven't set up a property company or investment company with filed accounts, and just pay personal tax?

Let's be fair about this.

Suppose as a private investor I borrow money to buy Premium Bonds, or shares in National Grid, or Krugerrands.

Should I be able to deduct the cost of the loan from my taxable profits and income?

Whatever rules apply to me should apply equally to Hawkeye when he borrows money to buy a bungalow and rent it out. And vice-versa.

Foreign property owners are already a scandal, and attempts have been made to treat them less generously.

Capital Gains Tax
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-closes-a-tax-gap-for-foreign-owners-1423760946

https://wealth.barclays.com/en_gb/h...could-the-new-uk-property-tax-affect-you.html

Income Tax and an annual property tax
http://www.bkl.co.uk/how-we-can-help/sectors/property-and-real-estate/investing-in-uk-property/