Dominic Cummings

[ajohn]

I'm not a Cummins fan but one aspect is correct. Our wonderful health minister did lie on numerous occasions about the testing fiasco by appearing to meet his targets when they weren't. Then comes the care home aspect from several - no we are not doing this when they were.

The epidemic plan is on the web it essentially says nothing can be done about it getting here and spreading. He is correct about that. That has to be coupled with lack of any preparation until they had to. Every change since has been a have to,

Why are deaths per capita higher here? Some of that is down to taking no notice what so ever of what other countries did - with bells on when compared with the east that had previous experience. They ran a simulation and decided not to publish the results. Some aspects of this relate to swine flue ideas, it will go away etc and the warmer weather aspect. Weird really when the temperatures in some countries that had it spreading.

Vaccine choice may turn out to be poor one over time - another had to - use what they could get.

Sweden's solution is some what different. Based on people who are more likely to suffer keeping out of trouble themselves. It's also an entirely different country. Demographics differ a lot from the UK.

Even the modellers have admitted lock downs should have started weeks sooner.

Overall it's probably a rather poor balance in the economics area. The higher the peaks the longer they take to decline. Couple this with the fact that covid wont be going away I don't think it's that hard to figure out some of their thoughts. Initial mention of herd immunity is interesting but the toll for achieving it turned our to be way way higher than they thought,

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Not forgetting that 450 million people from 26 other countries didn’t have an automatic right to go there on a €1.99 Ryanair flight!

Not forgetting that closing borders in such a situation is perfectly acceptable even within the EU.

 

[SirGalahad]

It’s called changing your plan as a situation develops. Unfortunately we had no experts with experience on coronavirus pandemics on our team. Some things worked, some things didn’t.

It’s true, many on here just complain after the event and say what should have been done but they never offer up their perfect solution before the event. You’re one of them. What’s your suggestion that we should do now then - continue as normal after June 21st or change that? International travel - tighten up or relax the rules? Allow people to go on holiday abroad or stop it? Let people go to major sporting events, restrict attendance or not allow them? Come on captain, your have a go.

More lies and revisionism. At the time people were calling out what needs to be done and the Government still went ahead had to make U-turns as they were wrong. The refrain of in hindsight has no substance.

The situation had developed - that's the point.

Simple. Give me the data the Government has and I will plot a course of action - it's not hard when you employ the right people and trust them.

Boris has been shifting around like a trolley down an isle.

So as to what we should do now. Get me data on how many people are entering and leaving the country. To which countries and the length of their stays.

This is all you have - what would you do? Well give me the data and facts and I will tell you.

 

[securespark]

5 million people in new zealand, compared to 60 million in the uk.

both economies are vastly different and reliant on differing things, and so the effects on each are vastly different.

Not sure that makes a great deal of difference.

Not forgetting that 450 million people from 26 other countries didn’t have an automatic right to go there on a €1.99 Ryanair flight!

Not sure that makes a great deal of difference either.

If this country had completely and utterly arrested any movement in or out immediately, that would have had a huge impact.

But of course, they didn't.

They couldn't even stop the sporting fixtures. Can't possibly shut them down, there's lots of money at stake...

The party that puts Wonga before anything else.

FFS.

 

[Notch7]

It’s true, many on here just complain after the event

Come on captain Hindsight, have a go

Johnson was warned by the Chinese president, leaders in Italy and scientists in the UK back in Feb 2020 that the country should lockdown soon.

But no Johnson ignored advice and even boasted he had been shaking hands with Covid patients......

Johnson was told to have a lockdown in Sept last year....by SAGE and by Starmer.


All well before the event.

So your "Captain hindsight" claim is pure hogwash

 

[Mottie]

Johnson was warned by the Chinese president, leaders in Italy and scientists in the UK back in Feb 2020 that the country should lockdown soon.

Define 'soon'. We locked down in March 2020. I don’t see any posts from you before that date supporting or even mentioning an earlier lockdown. Plenty of posts from you afterwards of course......

 

[ellal]

Except no one knew how Sweden's strategy was going to pan out. We only know the results now.

Plus i'm not sure that Sweden's strategy would have worked the same in our much more densely populated country

What some people always fail to realise is that in most countries people are massed in urban areas whatever the overall population...

Thus the 'their population is smaller than ours by land mass' is irrelevant...

Care to tell us the population density in Stockholm compared to London?

Actually it's about the same...

As it is with other comparable cities/towns in the two countries.

 

[Doug99]

It's quite normal for attendees at meetings to use their phones to snap flip charts or whiteboards.
I dislike him as a person and his politics but I believe his comments

Flip charts and whiteboards are used to capture all scenarios and situations to encourage discussion and analysis by the attendees, especially the worse case scenarios. White boards do not dictate policy.
Corvid is supposed to be the most serious matter to affect the UK since WW2. I'm sure the flip charts used to discuss all options for the 1944 D-Day landings will shock everyone who read them.
Cummings is stating his opinion on the way No10 has been run. He has a grudge with an axe to grind. He lost all credibility when he said Hancock should have been sacked 15-20 times.......and by the way..... "I lied about my driving to test my eyesight and breaking Corvid restrictions".

 

[IT Minion]

So, apparently 75% of Covid-19 infections are probably the Indian variant now. Which is another way of saying that if we'd had a robust quarantine system we might have less than a thousand cases today rather than 3500.

 

[Notch7]

So since Sweden's death rate in relation to population is lower than the UK's, should we have followed their lead?

Sweden still has a pretty high death rate.

Sweden is an interesting point as it supposedly chose herd immunity, but in reality it chose to advice the public not impose rules, however it has a different culture and they are used to doing things by consensus.

 

[Notch7]

So, apparently 75% of Covid-19 infections are probably the Indian variant now. Which is another way of saying that if we'd had a robust quarantine system we might have less than a thousand cases today rather than 3500.

France Germany etc now have put UK on amber list

 

[Mottie]

France Germany etc now have put UK on amber list

Aren’t they on our amber list already?

 

[JohnD]

https://www.ft.com/content/b77b39c8-a747-4d05-acd0-5ea1889ee45b

"Hancock admits some patients with Covid were moved into care homes

Spat over mishandling of pandemic continues as UK health secretary faces claims he lied over policy in March last year"

But surely we all knew that?



"Matt Hancock is under pressure after Dominic Cummings, Boris Johnson’s former chief adviser, claimed the health secretary had promised colleagues that patients being sent into care homes would be tested. Some 30,000 care home residents are thought to have died from the virus.

Under repeated questioning at a Downing Street press conference on Thursday about whether he told the truth about care home testing, Hancock said: “My recollection of events is I committed to delivering that testing when we could do it. I then went away and built the testing capacity.”

"He previously insisted he had thrown a “protective ring” around the sector."

 

[ellal]

Sweden still has a pretty high death rate.

Sweden is an interesting point as it supposedly chose herd immunity, but in reality it chose to advice the public not impose rules, however it has a different culture and they are used to doing things by consensus.

But a death rate lower than the UK...

And they didn't wreck their economy...

By different culture you probably mean a population not overall as thick as that in the UK?

 

[Notch7]

Define 'soon'. We locked down in March 2020. I don’t see any posts from you before that date supporting or even mentioning an earlier lockdown. Plenty of posts from you afterwards of course......

Plenty of posts in early March saying the govt strategy was wrong

A quote I posted:
"And unfortunately, tragically, this error is driving UK policy right now. We need social distancing measures to be strong enough and effective enough to bring R0 below 1 across Europe. As this happens, we can rebuild our freedoms again"

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...ugh-herd-immunity.540870/page-9#ixzz6w6KHYbzh


Sir Galahad was quite vocal about it well before the 23rd March.



"I still don't think people are really understanding the issue.

Reducing social contact helps to slow the spread of the virus so that the NHS can deal with the sick. The virus will affect a large percentage of the population - what we need is for this to happen over a longer period - that's all.

Whether or not a virus is found in 12 months - this approach helps us to spread the workload."



Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...ugh-herd-immunity.540870/page-4#ixzz6w6GvlzgS

And
We need to accept that we either need to:

1. Go into total shutdown, everybody stay at home, except army and volunteers to deliver food
2. Accept that everybody will get it, and 99% will survive, recover and develop immunity, and about 600,000 people, mostly pensioners, will die

If 2 happens, the housing market will be flooded with cheap properties than need updating / renovating, might help surviving youngsters get on the property market.


Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...d-through-herd-immunity.540870/#ixzz6w6J65mV0