Labour to bring an end to PFI

[motorbiking]

PFI and PPP were truly stupid ideas created to keep costs off the UK books. But buying out of the contracts will mean the other sides walk with all the profits they would have got and none of the costs of running the services. The country would then need to invest even more in running the services and probably issue tenders for the operation to the usual suspects, many of which ran them in the first place. So they get paid off to terminate the contract and then win a new contract to run the service. Doesn't seem a great use of public money.

It would be much better to go through the Service levels in very fine detail and hold their toes to the fire, scrutinising every failure and leading their partners to also seek an end to the arrangement.

 

[Doggit]

In the real world where people live in low wage jobs with less security paying through the nose for rents and cuts everywhere.

We've done this one before. Labour allowed in too many immigrants, they work for lower wages, and that keeps wages down overall. Labour introduced in work benefits, and so employers don't need to pay higher wages because of the oversupply of labour. Not enogh house building has been done since Thatcher, and so supply and demand pushes up rents and house prices, and then the conservatives pushed them higher with all their daft help to buy schemes.

None of them know what they are doing, so this isn't a Labour or Tory argument. Unfortunately, most voters are stupid enough not to be able to see through the inneptitude and lies that they both preddle.

All those companies already pay tax in the UK.

Yes they pay tax Roger, but because they channel most of the profits through tax havens to reduce their tax liability, they don't pay anywhere near as much as they should. The global laws need to be changed, so that all sales made in a particular country should be taxed at that countries rates, not the tax havens rate. Apple are sitting on a phenomonal amount of dosh overseas, and can't afford to repatriate it.

While Apple was once known for ploughing its profits back into developing new technologies, it now generates more cash than it would realistically want to spend. Its chief executive Tim Cook has returned over $200bn to shareholders since 2012 but most of its overseas profits have remained offshore due to the tax burden that bringing it back to the US would create.

 

[motorbiking]

to be fair the conservative second home tax and removal of tax benefit on buy to let has done quite a bit to improve supply.

 

[Notch7]

I applaud labour for raising the issue of PFI.

It really is an appalling scandal

The government have basically over the years bought NHS assets on a credit card, which are now max'd out and one of the reasons the NHS is in dire straits.

Started by John Major, massively expanded by Blair and Brown, continued somewhat by Cameron.

I dont think any party knows what can be done with the NHS, its such a hot potato, nobody wants to tackle it.

PS. I dont applaud John Mcdonnell for his magic money tree solution, but good on him for raising the issue.

 

[Bodgitnscarper]

WhereTF is the money going to come from.....?

It's ok Woody it's all been costed...Dianne Abbott did the maths!

 

[Notch7]

It's ok Woody it's all been costed...Dianne Abbott did the maths!

Its going to cost.....about, ......er about.....yes £300,000

I listened to that interview on LBC with Nick Ferrari.......I really did feel sorry for her, it was a complete car crash.

I dont think she was very well at time.

 

[Doggit]

[QUOTE="Notch7, post: 3995535, member: 249043"I dont think she was very well at time.[/QUOTE]

Sorry Notch, you've never struck me as gullible yet - no offence meant. I think it was given out that she was having a diabetc episode, but if you listen to the interview, it was only the figures that she had trouble with, and having put her foor in it, she couldn't extricate herself; the rest of the interview went fine.

 

[gasbanni]

You like to make derisive posts like this and then sit back and watch as people goad each other into dispute don't you himmagin.

The dedication you have to this role on here would make anyone think you are paid to do it

Is this poster really heragain ? How do you know ? I think her again used to be I'm a Martian prior to that I think it was walks with turkeys

 

[SirGalahad]

That's not quite as radical as buying back a PFI contract, but yes it should be on the table.

You run a business. You need to refinance. You can secure a lower rate and less repayments but you reject that to pay more over a longer term.

As I said - you simply cannot look past the politics and not the policy which shows you are not engaging logic but emotion.

I hope you don't run a business.

 

[SirGalahad]

We've done this one before. Labour allowed in too many immigrants, they work for lower wages, and that keeps wages down overall. Labour introduced in work benefits, and so employers don't need to pay higher wages because of the oversupply of labour. Not enogh house building has been done since Thatcher, and so supply and demand pushes up rents and house prices, and then the conservatives pushed them higher with all their daft help to buy schemes.

None of them know what they are doing, so this isn't a Labour or Tory argument. Unfortunately, most voters are stupid enough not to be able to see through the inneptitude and lies that they both preddle.

The Police, NHS, Fire service is run amok by low wage immigrants causing the low wages?

Where immigrants have taken jobs are jobs which the UK workforce are not willing to do. There is an argument that immigrants have reduced pressure on employers in raising wages but its simply not an issue of oversupply of labour.

Tories had in work benefits - Family Credit since 1986.

I think the Tories and New Labour knew exactly what they were doing - have you read that article on Neo Liberal economics?

 

[Doggit]

You really are getting beyond the pale Kankerot. The Police and the Fire service are not low wage professions, so why try and use them in spurious argument. The NHS has low paid cleaners and anciliary staff, and there have been several cases of them emplying foreigners, not entitled to work over here.

Yes, most british won't work in the seasonal fruit industry, but in the construction industry, immigramst will work harder, longer, and for less than the locals, and even Labout have admitted that they've kept wages down, so why are you arguing aginst it.

And yes, the Tories introduced the in work benefits, but it was Gordon Brown who expanded them so much. And please stop quoting Neo Liberal economics, it's getting boring.

 

[^woody^]

You run a business. You need to refinance. You can secure a lower rate and less repayments but you reject that to pay more over a longer term.

What does this mean, or is it a separate convo?

 

[Doggit]

No, it's a meaningless attempt to expain away the PFI renegotiations. If you can sece a lowere interest rate, then you're repayments would be lower; this would then allow you to pay more each month, and so shortern the repayment term, but I have no idea why you're reject that option to pay more over a longer term. Possibly Neo Liberal economics by any chance.

 

[SirGalahad]

No, it's a meaningless attempt to expain away the PFI renegotiations. If you can sece a lowere interest rate, then you're repayments would be lower; this would then allow you to pay more each month, and so shortern the repayment term, but I have no idea why you're reject that option to pay more over a longer term. Possibly Neo Liberal economics by any chance.

Explain away? Or try to simplify to those who really don't understand.

I cannot understand why someone would want to keep PFI in place when you can refinance them.

 

[SirGalahad]

You really are getting beyond the pale Kankerot. The Police and the Fire service are not low wage professions, so why try and use them in spurious argument. The NHS has low paid cleaners and anciliary staff, and there have been several cases of them emplying foreigners, not entitled to work over here.

Yes, most british won't work in the seasonal fruit industry, but in the construction industry, immigramst will work harder, longer, and for less than the locals, and even Labout have admitted that they've kept wages down, so why are you arguing aginst it.

And yes, the Tories introduced the in work benefits, but it was Gordon Brown who expanded them so much. And please stop quoting Neo Liberal economics, it's getting boring.

You don't get a nuanced argument. I said that foreign labour was one of the factors that had depressed wages but not the only factor.

So please don't read this as support for uncontrolled immigration - which I am against. I have said it many times on here - (you can do a search) - we had the ways and means to control immigration but chose not to.