Winter of Discontent (202)2

[Odds]

Prices [wages] can't be "adjusted" just because I want more money, as the client [employer] will/ can only pay what they can afford to pay, and that's how the market works.

I agree, but you'd have to raise your prices to cover costs and make any money. Who covers those costs for you? The customer. Public Sector workers cannot enjoy such latitude, and if one of them has to employ a tradesman for a job they end up paying for it more than once.

 

[Pat ex]

Your position is unclear. Are you a capitalist who believes in the seller trying to maximise his price?

Or do you prefer a planned ecomomy where prices are regulated?

Capitalism isn't just about the highest price, it's also about the lowest cost.
Highest price for selling the product that has been produced at the lowest cost, and achieving the greatest margin.
That's Capitalism, baby.

 

[Odds]

Capitalism isn't just about the highest price, it's also about the lowest cost.
Highest price for selling the product that has been produced at the lowest cost, and achieving the greatest margin.
That's Capitalism, baby.

I suppose that's why British business' goes to the Far East to make stuff, depriving British workers of jobs they could do as productively.

 

[Pat ex]

There must be lots of vacancies for the "hard working" illegals to slip into then.

So-called "illegals" cannot work for the state (unless they're an au pair )
And the state has legislated so that employers must 'police' their workforce.

 

[Pat ex]

They have transferable skills that could be used in other occupations. They could even move to a different health authority - they don’t all pay the same. Try Googling 'paramedic jobs uk'.

A plethora of vacancies does not prove that there are genuine opportunities for higher wages.
a) the jobs need to be in a similar locality, otherwise it might mean a massive upheaval for a few extra pounds.
b) it can also indicate that the vacancies are caused by low wages, and few applications for jobs.

 

[Pat ex]

Go to uni, get better qualified, get a better paid job?

And a £100,000 debt.

 

[Pat ex]

Prices [wages] can't be "adjusted" just because I want more money, as the client [employer] will/ can only pay what they can afford to pay, and that's how the market works.

Some services are required by legislation.
A consumer will not have much choice on whether to use that service, only a small choice on the price of that service.
And sometimes no choice on the price of the service.

 

[motorbiking]

@Odds Not necessarily.

In the value chain of a product much of the high margin (design, IP, marketing, sales, field service, support, strategy, financing) is done here and only the low margin work is off-shore.

There are plenty of high paid jobs in industries where the product is developed in India and China.

 

[Pat ex]

I suppose that's why British business' goes to the Far East to make stuff, depriving British workers of jobs they could do as productively.

Off-topic, I know, and I don't want to divert the topic, just an aside:
I read t'other day, that slavery created capitalism, or maybe capitalism created slavery.
Either way, they are interrelated.

 

[Pat ex]

@Odds Not necessarily.

In the value chain of a product much of the high margin (design, IP, marketing, sales, field service, support, strategy, financing) is done here and only the low margin work is off-shore.

There are plenty of high paid jobs in industries where the product is developed in India and China.

Such a utopia of highly skilled workforce still needs low skilled workers. And those low skilled workers still need a decent wage.

Otherwise we see a shortage of unskilled and semi-skilled workers.

 

[motorbiking]

And a £100,000 debt.

plenty of Uni's structure the courses so that the Student can fit in study with part time work. my oldest's course is 2 1/2 days a week full time. He works as a retail manager the rest of the week and is fully able to support himself without running up debts.

 

[Pat ex]

plenty of Uni's structure the courses so that the Student can fit in study with part time work. my oldest's course is 2 1/2 days a week full time. He works as a retail manager the rest of the week and is fully able to support himself without running up debts.

So he fully supports himself, working 2½ days a week, without running up debts?

Maybe he should start offering financial advice to the low paid.

 

[cwhaley]

Works on some courses, I did it (but no way would I be able to fully support myself on whatever wages I got then).

Not on others though. Loads and loads of courses involve full time unpaid placement, what do you do then? "Sorry boss, I can't come in for the next three months but can you still keep paying me"?

 

[motorbiking]

Such a utopia of highly skilled workforce still needs low skilled workers. And those low skilled workers still need a decent wage.

Otherwise we see a shortage of unskilled and semi-skilled workers.

And guess what happens - the wages go up, because the employer cannot fill the vacancies or the work is moved to a country where people can do the work for the pay on offer and support themselves. Any company who wants to exploit these low paid workers in low cost countries risks their brand not to mention modern slavery laws.

If the wages don't go up, then economy is depressed and inflation falls. Everything finds it level without state or union intervention.

So he fully supports himself, working 2½ days a week, without running up debts?

Maybe he should start offering financial advice to the low paid.

27 hours a week - yes pretty much. He did not want to run up huge debts, so we sat down and worked out how to make it work. He asked for a promotion otherwise he would have to leave and they gave it to him. Supply & Demand working.

Works on some courses, I did it (but no way would I be able to fully support myself on whatever wages I got then).

Not on others though. Loads and loads of courses involve full time unpaid placement, what do you do then? "Sorry boss, I can't come in for the next three months but can you still keep paying me"?

Me too - I did a thin sandwich course and did contract work for my "placements". owed my parents £200 when I graduated as I needed first months rent and deposit. However, nowadays, the thin sandwich is optional and its unlawful to get "interns" to work for free. Last Intern I had cost me £30k FTE.

 

[Dork Lard]

I think it is the easiest thing in the world to say to someone "get a better job with more pay".