Should the UK pay a divorce bill from the EU ?

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

I'm not particularly convinced about the language of the poll - it seems slightly weighted, but it seems 70% support brexit now :
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/majority-favour-pushing-brexit-many-are-tempted-so/

On the subject of strengths and weaknesses - both sides have strengths and weaknesses. I do enjoy this attitude from the remainers that we are all doomed, so we should just bend over and take one for the EU team.

The reality is nobody in team EU will be trumpeting their weaknesses and all of them will be trying to turn their negotiations strategy in to the framework by which the negotiations are conducted. Surely some of you have done complex negotiations in your lives?

Again you are only quoting a minimal amount of the article to support your argument.
When one reads further into it:

While the majority of the British public still think the government should press on with Brexit, they are far more finely balanced over whether it should go ahead with the sort of Brexit that Theresa May has set out.
While in March approaching half of (48%) had confidence in the Prime Minister’s ability to negotiate the sort of Brexit she wants, this figure has now fallen to only 37%. Similarly, there has been a slump in the proportion of people who think that the government is doing a good job on Brexit – declining from 40% in April to 22% now.
Over four in ten (43%) think that Theresa May should continue with Brexit on her original terms following the general election. Yet this group is narrowly outnumbered by those who would prefer a change in direction of some sort – be it abandoning Brexit completely (7%), having a second referendum (17%), or changing the UK’s negotiation terms to look for a "softer" Brexit (23%). Together, those seeking a different path of one kind or another account for 47%.
Similarly, there is a majority who pick either a soft Brexit (19%) or remaining in the EU (35%) as their ideal outcome (a total of 54%).
Whether softening the terms of Brexit is politically possible in the short term is a different matter. Supporters of Theresa May's Conservative party are more strongly in favour of a "hard Brexit" (37% would ideally like only a limited trade deal, 29% would prefer no deal at all), and May's already perilous position is also dependent upon opinion within the Parliamentary Conservative party.

Nevertheless, in terms of crude public opinion there is a path to a softer Brexit. Whether that is politically tenable given the balance of opinion within the Conservative party is a different matter.

The overarching point is that less than a third of people (29%) are happy with the direction and progress so far.

 

[Deleted member 63160]

What they are doing, to keep up their spirits and hopefully re-energise the Hatred of Foreigners on which the Quitter movement depends

Yehhh! Bout time the old race card came out

 

[motorbiking]

Again you are only quoting a minimal amount of the article to support your argument.
When one reads further into it:

The overarching point is that less than a third of people (29%) are happy with the direction and progress so far.

I know you're quoting, so this is a comment on the pollsters interpretation. but combing groups based on independent questioning is bad statistics.

it's a bit like saying. 40% voted in favour red houses while 20% green 10% blue 30% white. therefore we should not build red houses because the majority do not want red houses. The statistic is true but the conclusion wrong.


On the subject. personally I'd be in favour of soft brexit, subject to price and freedom to negotiate elsewhere. I think that is what the govt is aiming for and always was. it's the media and opposition who are saying otherwise and there is nothing to support it.

 

[noseall]

By the same token, THEY will still need to trade with us, so it is in their interest too

Correct.
But the all important factor - who do you think is in the best bargaining position? Who stands to lose the most by being flippant and having a 'go whistle' attitude?

 

[motorbiking]

it's clock facing. very common negotiation tactic. EU are using it too. The comment about. DD not having brought his homework, was just as childish. He almost certainly didn't want a sneaky zoom lense scanning his notes.

 

[noseall]

. He almost certainly didn't want a sneaky zoom lense scanning his notes.

Good thinking.

Or perhaps he could have kept them in a cover or folder mebbe?

 

[transam]

Good thinking.

Or perhaps he could have kept them in a cover or folder mebbe?

perhaps he knows his brief

The late Robin cook one of the sharpest minds in politics never used many notes or ref material

 

[motorbiking]

you do whatever is needed to apply pressure.

I've done right disputes with boxes of paperwork other times just a blank notebook. You don't need to refer to anything if you are saying no.

Also. pulling out private docs is bad form without prior disclosure

 

[noseall]

you do whatever is needed to apply pressure.

I'm sure our seasoned negotiators will fend off any nonsense pressure tactics from those EU pussies.

Also. pulling out private docs is bad form without prior disclosure

What and who are you referring to in this comment? Are you suggesting DD walked into a meeting without any notes because of prior disclosure?

 

[JohnD]

Yehhh! Bout time the old race card came out

poor daft mitch thinks that the population of the 27 is of some race different from the population of the dUK.

 

[Brigadier]

Good thinking.

Or perhaps he could have kept them in a cover or folder mebbe?

How's he supposed to refer to them, then?

 

[transam]

The 27 governments represented by this bloke barnier I reckon he might have some Russian link

and has been leaking private conversations to the press ?? daily Wail may be

I heard on the radio tonight that Poland may have there voting rights suspended

Head of the French armed forces has resigned up set by austerity cuts to the defence budget

Just the start of the cuts in France

That French PM bloke , had better make sure he keeps his plimsolls handy for when he has to do a runner

He can always blame the Russians

wonder if him again is a Russian

 

[motorbiking]

I'm sure our seasoned negotiators will fend off any nonsense pressure tactics from those EU pussies.

What and who are you referring to in this comment? Are you suggesting DD walked into a meeting without any notes because of prior disclosure?

I'm suggesting it's rare that you need a little stack of notes to make a sneaky peak at without sharing your notes with the other side. Proper negotiations are based on trust and an aim to come to an agreement that both can accept- not necessarily a compromise.

 

[Corgigrouch GTi]

Correct.
But the all important factor - who do you think is in the best bargaining position? Who stands to lose the most by being flippant and having a 'go whistle' attitude?

We have the strongest bargaining position... Do you really believe that VAG, BMW, MB, et al are going to stand by whilst the EU force them to shut down the section that produces right hand drive vehicles and throw their workers on the streets whilst the Japanese and Koreans announce extra overtime... Do you really think that the French, Italian and Spanish wine producers will not march on Brussels whilst we buy superior products from Georgia and Austrailia? Granted as a percentage of sales, the UK is quite small but the EU producers work on small margins, so any loss of sales to them is catastrophic... EU unemploymet figures are through the roof as EU states struggle to support their new imports from Africa

 

[JohnD]

Do you really believe that VAG, BMW, MB, et al are going to stand by

Yes, the German car manufacturers have already said that they stand by the benefits to the greater good.

Surely you already know that?

Do you think the British car manufacturers (BMW mini, American Ford, American General Motors Vauxhall, BMW Rolls-Royce, French-owned Peugeot, Japanese Toyota, Volkswagen Bentley - you see a pattern here?) will stand by and let the dUK government throw away free entry to the Single Market? Do you think the voters of the dUK will stand by and allow the Quitters to make us all poorer? Yes, you do.

We have the strongest bargaining position

hahahahahahahahaha!

When Trump says "America First!" do you actually think he means "America and Britain First?" he doesn't. dUK is a foreign country just like all the others in RoW.