More on Roma folk

[AdamW]

I think its a shame the way that people coming here from other countries go into gettos rather than mix with us anglo saxons i guess it cos we aren't very nice to them,

Well, if you think about this logically...

The cost of housing and living in the UK is incredibly high compared to other countries. If you are rich in a poor country, that doesn't mean you will be rich here. £20K might buy you a mansion in parts of SE Asia, but it won't buy you a mobile home in the UK.

So, it is totally reasonable to assume that if someone moves to the UK from such a country they will seldom be able to afford a big house in a nice area. They obviously decided living in a s**thole in England is superior overall to a life of luxury in their motherland or a life of semi-luxury in a cheaper country, they must have their reasons to have moved. If they are clever, work hard and make their fortune then they might be able to afford to live in nice areas. We have no apartheid in the UK, people can buy or rent where they want, provided they can afford it.

My mum has a colleague who was a teacher in South Africa. They had a maid and a big house, in the UK they have a 3-bed semi and no servants. Should we have subsidised them with a £500K grant to leave them with the £800K that their house would cost in that area? Of course not!

In the situation of an asylum seeker, if they are living on the UK tax payers' money then of course they should be living in the cheapest place we can find. If they have somehow managed to bring assets with them (I'm sure that rich people with Swiss bank accounts sometimes need asylum), then they will probably have no hesitation in paying their own way to live more comfortably.

So, it isn't a matter of us not being nice to them, it is a matter that they are poor and can't afford to live in a nice area. It would be great if we had no bad areas in the UK, but there always will be such places, no matter what we do (short of eugenics!). An anglo-saxon asylum seeker claiming asylum in the UK would be treated the same as if they were any other ethnicity.

 

[AdamW]

Can you explain the difference between a racial comment about a Brit and one about another race?

The latter will get you into more trouble...

 

[TraineeSpark]

With all due respect to everyone who has posted on this subject, does the fact that you have gipsy blood in you veins mean you are any less british? I am quarter romany but can trace my TRUE english ancestry back to 1544A.D. I don't agree with people who are trying to gain access to this country, and its benefits etc. when my granddad who served in WWII and is wholly British gets F**k all from the government, but then I equally don't agree with people who claim to be british, and have never worked a day in their lives claiming every benefit under the sun! And, excuse me if I am wrong but when was the Vatican City announced as part of Great Britain.

 

[TraineeSpark]

And if it is such a huge problem that effects the Vatican perhaps they could sell their billions of pounds/dollars worth of priceless art hidden in the cellars to aid the cause

 

[AdamW]

Sorry dude, I just love that flag. I'm not even catholic!

I'm not sure about the official line, but "British" surely doesn't count as an ethnicity, it is just a nationality. So it is perfectly possible to be British AND a Gypsy (or a traveller). Ethnic group does not make any one person more or less British than another. If you want to get really historical you can say we are all Ethiopians anyway.

I don't think anyone in the "against illegitimate asylum claims" camp ever raised the issue of ethnicity, it is purely on immigration regardless of ethnicity. The title of the thread is merely due to the fact that in this case the people concerned where Romani. The whole issue was EU citizens trying to claim asylum in another part of the EU. This would be just as bad if they were Bavarian, Dutch or Anglo-Saxon (but obviously foreign nationals AND EU citizens).

 

[TraineeSpark]

O.K Mate I Am Sorry if I have inadvertanly misunderstood the thread of this post. Just read the end of it all and got carried away. And between you and me it is a nice flag.

 

[AdamW]

No problem, must be your Romani spirit.

Debates here are seldom orderly, everyone goes off on a different tangent until no-one understands what's going on, or how we started, so don't stop adding your two-penneth!

 

[TraineeSpark]

Think I will spend the next six months keeping my neck well wound in But at the same time wish to thank you for enlightenment to the vatican cause

 

[chainsaw_masochist]

I am quarter romany but can trace my TRUE english ancestry back to 1544A.D.

A quarter romany, ay? Well I found out Friday that I am 33% Chavish and our family are able to trace our lineage all the way back to World War 2.

 

[kendor]

hope i don't get torched here, I believe that churches and their leaders are merely interpreters of the "word" sometimes they get it right and a lot of the time they get it wrong, in the end you pays your money and takes your choice with whatever you feel is right and comfortable to live with.
Like other "businesses" they are money orientated now which is why i am not a religious person ie i dont subscribe to their teachings as i believe they are not putting over the correct messages anymore.
I now feel happier with more direct action in helping others rather than contribute to the upkeep of palatial buildings that contribute little to the majority of folk these days hence the fall in attendance. Right i'm waiting to be lynched now as i suggest that the councils knock down these structures and build something more useful in their place such as care centres.

 

[AdamW]

Right i'm waiting to be lynched now as i suggest that the councils knock down these structures and build something more useful in their place such as care centres.

I won't lynch you but I would propse that is a very bad idea. Would you knock down a beautiful 15th century building, possibily of historical value, in order to put a modern building in it's place? What about the people who do use the church? What if there is a religious renaissance at some point and everyone starts going on a Sunday?

What type of care centre? Would it be a bit tactless to put an OAP care centre on a plot of land surrounded by graves? Or perhaps a care centre for disturbed children... perhaps not!

Unfortunately most people won't think anything of declining attendance until they find there aren't any pretty little churches to get married in anymore. I'm as bad as the next guy, other than during a holiday to Rome I haven't set foot in a church on a Sunday in a good 10 years. But when I have kids I do intend to take them.

 

[kendor]

What type of care centre? Would it be a bit tactless to put an OAP care centre on a plot of land surrounded by graves?

I know i shouldn't but that comment made me chuckle I'm expecting Pip to have a go at me now

 

[TexMex]

Shame on you Tex! richardp and others must pick up on this if they are not biased.

Within a couple of miles of this haven, there are some pretty rough council estates. A lot of Brits there, and a lot of trouble. I don't know what to make of this, other than Ghettos seem to work

You are clearly associating brits and council estates with trouble. If I substituted Brit for African, Asian or WHY, you would say my comments were racially motivated and you would rightly castigate me for it.

Can you explain the difference between a racial comment about a Brit and one about another race?

Your missunderstanding my point. Look at the context of that comment. I only mentioned that there were plenty of Brits there to indicate that it is "NOT a ghetto". I'm not saying that the presence of the Brits is what causes the trouble. Just making the overall point that some "Ghettos" have no problems, and some Non Ghettos that have plenty. Thus countering Richards assertion that Ghettos are a bad thing.

On the subject of council estates, if one has a problem, whats wrong with admitting it. Some do, some don't, it's a fact.

Perhaps to redress the balance I should say, there are areas of East London that I wouldn't dare enter unless accompanied by a Black person. It still doesn't cause me a problem because I keep clear. Given that these people are in the country, I'd rather they stay in a Ghetto that I know I should avoid, than have them integrated into my own community, Possibly encountering them unexpectedly.

I'm not racist against blacks, I just stear clear of their racist factions as a matter of common sense. If I know where they are, it makes self preservation that much easier.

It's getting so that, you can't admit the truth about anything anymore, for fear of someone applying a bit of syllogism, and accusing you of generallisations that you have patently not asserted.

 

[david and julie]

I have richardp's post again and noticed these parts too.

I think its a shame the way that people coming here from other countries go into gettos rather than mix with us anglo saxons

Certain immigrants (mainly Asian) do go to certain area's by their own choice. The problem is they want to keep their own culture within ours, rather than integrating. You only have to look at the arranged marraige sitiuation where young British born Asian girls are deprived of the choice given to their white friends.

in Australia they tend to mix more which makes for a much richer culture,

Really? I suggest you read their websites on trying to get there in the first place!
Texmex also said.

I have to admit, that the majority of crimes in the area seem to be perpetuated by the British majority. Mainly wanton vandalism, and TWOCing.

Another racist comment, unless you have figures to back it up. In America the crime statistics are broken down by race, this was suggested here and refused because it is (rightly)considered racist. I am therefore curious how you arrive at your comment? You also said.

My step son lives in Gloucester. His neighbourhood is almost exclusively Moslem. The exceptions being just himself and his Irish next door neighbours.

What is the relevance of the Irish comment? These comments are then about your own area.

Whenever I stay over with him, I can't help but feel the sense of community about the place. (Something that seems to be dissappearing in my own neck of the woods).

and

I'm not so sure that's the case. In and around East London, we have a very rich diversity of cultures. In my street alone, we have Pakistanis, Chinese, Turks, Irish, Albanian, Greeks, and us natives

Are you saying a large foreign presence works in one area but not another? Could it be the native Londoners are sick to death of all these non conformists and have given up?

One must question why, given the Gov says these people are coming here to work, they all live in slums and are poor. Could it again be our fault? do you think more benefit may help their plight?

 

[AdamW]

I hadn't noticed the Australia comment, but now I have seen it I had to laugh!

You are aware of the post-war immigration policies of Australia I take it? Let's just say that you would be hard-pressed to find a jewish Australian, certainly one who moved there in the 1940s or 50s. Not sure if they had similar rules for different groups too, the anti-semitism was the only one I have heard of.

Of course things change, but they are still selective on who they bring in (although obviously it isn't down to ethnicity or religion now!) After that post-war "moment of madness", they have got a brilliant immigration policy. It sucks for many of the people trying to move there, but it preserves the rights and lifestyle of those who already live there. I would freakin' love to have an Australian-style immigration policy!